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After giving more thought to this

JR4AU

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Re: After giving mre thought to this
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2011, 12:25:22 PM »
Unfortunately, you are probably right.

I just don't see any advantage though to starting Moseley or Trotter. Let Kiehl shake that green off, win or lose. We have to get him seasoned somewhat for next year. If we are relying on Pike alone to save our entire season next year, then we are screwed more than likely and have other issues.

I hope I'm wrong, but my gut tells me, as bad as the QB play has been all season, that it wasn't his "youth" that kept him from playing more.  Fuck sakes, how much worse could he be?  Unfortunately, I think IF they do decide to let him be "the guy" we're going to find out why.  Seriously, I mean, they burned his redshirt early...we've seen QB play that would make Daniel Cobb look like an All American by comparison, and he's still only played sparingly at Wildcat?  Come on.   I really hope I'm wrong.  And maybe I am, I mean clearly these coaches don't know jack shit about football.  Or maybe Gus was just too busy this season to draw up the Frazier Offense and get a copy to Kiehl.  Wonder what he did with the Cam Offense playbook? 
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GH2001

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Re: After giving mre thought to this
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2011, 12:33:20 PM »
I hope I'm wrong, but my gut tells me, as bad as the QB play has been all season, that it wasn't his "youth" that kept him from playing more.  Fuck sakes, how much worse could he be?  Unfortunately, I think IF they do decide to let him be "the guy" we're going to find out why.  Seriously, I mean, they burned his redshirt early...we've seen QB play that would make Daniel Cobb look like an All American by comparison, and he's still only played sparingly at Wildcat?  Come on.   I really hope I'm wrong.  And maybe I am, I mean clearly these coaches don't know jack shit about football.  Or maybe Gus was just too busy this season to draw up the Frazier Offense and get a copy to Kiehl.  Wonder what he did with the Cam Offense playbook?

I dont see anything to lose by letting it ride with him for a bowl game. We will lose to a superior team with the status quo. If we put Kiehl in and he flops, then what did we lose?
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Godfather

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Re: After giving mre thought to this
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2011, 12:42:07 PM »
My birds are not as entrenched as they were before, but the chirping I hear is that you can wait until 10:30 the Monday after the last regular season game of 2012 and possibly still not hear it.  Not going anywhere.  Continuity is valued over results.  The whispers I hear is that everybody who came on was given a five year pass unless they elect to go somewhere else on their own.  Probably BS, but I've heard the same thing twice.

I believe it...I don't like it, but I believe it.
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JR4AU

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Re: After giving mre thought to this
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2011, 12:57:28 PM »
I dont see anything to lose by letting it ride with him for a bowl game. We will lose to a superior team with the status quo. If we put Kiehl in and he flops, then what did we lose?

We agree, just saying, I bet we figure out real quick why he's not gotten more playing time.  And, too, if he sets the world on fire, you know what you'll be hearing don't you?    This is one thing I would agree with people on if they were saying it, but I haven't heard it...the coaches fucked up burning his redshirt for as little contribution as he's made, and as little experience as he's gotten. 
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Snaggletiger

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Re: After giving more thought to this
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2011, 01:47:42 PM »
Thoughts on Frazier and the future. As I said before, I went to a scrimmage the week before the season where Frazier took all the snaps.  It was obvious then why he was #3 on the depth chart.  Granted, they were resting the starters and seeing who would give them depth that day, but it was apparent that KF just wasn't a very accurate passer.  Maybe it was just that day, but with the play of Trotter and Moseley this year and Frazier being so limited in what they allow him to do, it's probably the most likely reason. 

Now, having said that, I place zero faith in Fro-Throw or Moseley being Auburn's future at QB. I think you have to focus your attention on getting Frazier as many reps as possible between now and the spring game.  And since Pike is to enroll early, find out what he's all about as soon as possible.  Frazier is a weapon running the ball.  He's fast and athletic and surprisingly strong running up the middle.  I think the way to go is Frazier at the helm using a steady diet of option plays with him and Dyer in the middle with an occasional speed rush with MacProne.

How many times this year have we been arguing that Dyer could have ground out 150 yards regardless if you just give him the damn ball.  Well, how much more would they have to respect Dyer if they had to account for both he and Frazier.  You work in enough safe, play action passes to Lutz and others and never put Frazier in the situation of having to stand in the pocket and make decisions.  Let him and Dyer pound it like Sandusky up the middle until the kid feels comfortable.  Unless they do sign an all world JUCO QB, it's Frazier and Pike as the future.  Use them.   
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GH2001

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Re: After giving mre thought to this
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2011, 02:47:33 PM »
We agree, just saying, I bet we figure out real quick why he's not gotten more playing time.  And, too, if he sets the world on fire, you know what you'll be hearing don't you?    This is one thing I would agree with people on if they were saying it, but I haven't heard it...the coaches fucked up burning his redshirt for as little contribution as he's made, and as little experience as he's gotten.

Right. And again, who's to say this isnt a player development problem? Keihl has had no issues until now. Neither did the other 2. There is a disconnect at developing our QB's aside from Cam and Todd. And what I am getting at is that this is ultimately the coaches responsibility. I want improvement, development, etc.
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JR4AU

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Re: After giving mre thought to this
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2011, 03:23:09 PM »
Right. And again, who's to say this isnt a player development problem? Keihl has had no issues until now. Neither did the other 2. There is a disconnect at developing our QB's aside from Cam and Todd. And what I am getting at is that this is ultimately the coaches responsibility. I want improvement, development, etc.

Would you agree with this statement?  "Not everybody can play QB in the SEC."

Since I'm going to assume you do agree, then you might consider that they've been "tutored" and "developed" as much as their talents will allow.  In other words, we just don't have a QB on the roster that can play in the SEC.  Frazier may grow in to it, I don't know.

And yes, I understand Gus is paid well to "develop" them.  It's ultimately his responsibility, though it may not be within his control or power to make them any better than their talents will allow.   
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Buzz Killington

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Re: After giving mre thought to this
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2011, 03:24:53 PM »
Would you agree with this statement?  "Not everybody can play QB in the SEC."

Since I'm going to assume you do agree, then you might consider that they've been "tutored" and "developed" as much as their talents will allow.  In other words, we just don't have a QB on the roster that can play in the SEC.  Frazier may grow in to it, I don't know.

And yes, I understand Gus is paid well to "develop" them.  It's ultimately his responsibility, though it may not be within his control or power to make them any better than their talents will allow.   

He would obviously get a pass on Trotsky and Mosebarandgrill, but Frazier was to be his prodigy.  Played at the school he coached at prior, running the same offense.
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ssgaufan

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Re: After giving more thought to this
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2011, 03:25:50 PM »
How do you guys feel about Pike?  I don't get a warm and fuzzy about him coming in and being much better that what we already have.  He's immature (which is to be expected from a 17/18 yo), and looking at his stats, he really didn't set the world on fire in his Sr season of HS football.
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Snaggletiger

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Re: After giving more thought to this
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2011, 03:27:29 PM »
How do you guys feel about Pike?  I don't get a warm and fuzzy about him coming in and being much better that what we already have.  He's immature (which is to be expected from a 17/18 yo), and looking at his stats, he really didn't set the world on fire in his Sr season of HS football.

I've never fished for them but I hear they put up one hell of a fight.
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ssgaufan

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Re: After giving more thought to this
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2011, 03:29:12 PM »
I've never fished for them but I hear they put up one hell of a fight.

Please be quite and let the grown ups talk.
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Snaggletiger

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Re: After giving more thought to this
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2011, 03:30:16 PM »
Please be quite and let the grown ups talk.

That's quiet big talk.
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Godfather

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Re: After giving more thought to this
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2011, 03:31:13 PM »
How do you guys feel about Pike?  I don't get a warm and fuzzy about him coming in and being much better that what we already have.  He's immature (which is to be expected from a 17/18 yo), and looking at his stats, he really didn't set the world on fire in his Sr season of HS football.
I am excited about the possibility of him, but again not as a true freshman running our offense.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 03:31:48 PM by Godfather »
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JR4AU

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Re: After giving mre thought to this
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2011, 03:31:24 PM »
He would obviously get a pass on Trotsky and Mosebarandgrill, but Frazier was to be his prodigy.  Played at the school he coached at prior, running the same offense.

I don't really give him a full pass on Trotter.  Trotter should get it.  I even think there's a way to salvage him because his problems are largely mental. 

Frazier, as stated, jury still out.  True Fr., has had little playing time, and gets very few practice reps.  I have concerns, but still hold out hope.
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GH2001

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Re: After giving more thought to this
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2011, 03:31:53 PM »
I've never fished for them but I hear they put up one hell of a fight.

Kinda like those killa mackerals eh?
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djsimp

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Re: After giving more thought to this
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2011, 03:32:58 PM »
That's quiet big talk.

Just quit already.
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Godfather

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Re: After giving mre thought to this
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2011, 03:35:02 PM »
Would you agree with this statement?  "Not everybody can play QB in the SEC."

Since I'm going to assume you do agree, then you might consider that they've been "tutored" and "developed" as much as their talents will allow.  In other words, we just don't have a QB on the roster that can play in the SEC.  Frazier may grow in to it, I don't know.

And yes, I understand Gus is paid well to "develop" them.  It's ultimately his responsibility, though it may not be within his control or power to make them any better than their talents will allow.   
See I disagree again. AJ McJackass I don't think is anything special either.  I would make the statement that put Trotts or Moosely behind the bama line then there probably isn't significant drop off. 
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JR4AU

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Re: After giving more thought to this
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2011, 03:37:21 PM »
How do you guys feel about Pike?  I don't get a warm and fuzzy about him coming in and being much better that what we already have.  He's immature (which is to be expected from a 17/18 yo), and looking at his stats, he really didn't set the world on fire in his Sr season of HS football.

FWIW, he's the #4 Pro Style QB on rivals.  But I  do have concerns about his maturity, and character. 
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djsimp

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Re: After giving more thought to this
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2011, 03:38:53 PM »
FWIW, he's the #4 Pro Style QB on rivals.  But I  do have concerns about his maturity, and character.

So basically Fraziers role as the Wildcat QB is in no danger.
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Buzz Killington

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Re: After giving more thought to this
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2011, 03:41:25 PM »
I've never fished for them but I hear they put up one hell of a fight.

round these parts we figure we're doing folks a favor when we kill a carp
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Now I may be an idiot, but there is one thing I am not, sir, and that, sir, is an idiot.