You still don't get it, chopper.
You've already said you'd be leading the charge if this happened at Alabama, so you can save all the "taking away the emotion and thinking objectively" bullshit for another argument. You are biased towards Joe Paterno because you believe him to be above this type of behavior. He's not, and he's getting what he deserves for being a coward.
Yeah. Because what I know of Saban and Bryant doesn't give me any indication to think that they'd be above it. You're right.
Who it is makes a difference. If this were Dennis Rodman or Phil Spector, I wouldn't have much trouble with the concept.
Paterno? Doesn't make sense. Doesn't jibe. That leaves me with either blindly accepting what's on the surface or trying to figure it out by looking at the entire picture.
I think I specifically said I'm trying to figure out how a guy with Paterno's established credibility and integrity could get caught up in something like this. And I'm formulating rational and reasonable -- non-emotional -- reasons for how it could have reached this point.
It doesn't make sense to me and I'm trying to look at it objectively and understand it in the context of the world we actually live in as opposed to the utopian one where everybody always does what's morally and ethically right regardless of the circumstances. What did he know, what was he told when he made the decisions that he did?
You're a cop for god's sake. You know better than anybody the kind of heinous shit people try to keep buried in their own familes, in business, in schools -- for reasons far less valid than this.
All I'm saying is that I can see how a guy who is his good friend, his confidant could convince him that what the GA termed "some sex stuff maybe in the shower" or whatever was completely misconstrued. I can see him wanting to believe and accepting the explanation. I'm saying that you, in the same situation, DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU WERE ACTUALLY TOLD, might could be convinced by your favorite uncle that what some other guy THOUGHT was sexual horseplay was nothing of the sort. No way.
That door is closed to you. I understand. It's not entirely closed to me until and unless somebody tells me for an absolute undeniable concrete fact that Paterno unquestionably knew the extent and there was no room for doubt.
Don't make the mistake of thinking I said he did what he should have done, did all he could do, or did what was acceptable to me. I'm just trying to come up with a plausible reality that fits who we all knew Paterno to be before the other day. Would that guy honestly try to cover up (as has been shouted here as if it were an absolute) anal rape of a child!!! The only guy we KNOW covered that up is McQueary.
I'm not willing to make my final determination on Paterno based on "he must have" or "he had to" or "IMO he did" or "there's no way he didn't" or "I believe" or "I'm sure he" or "you can't tell me he didn't" or any of that. Every single ounce of that is speculation. What are the FACTS?
It's illegal and worth condemnation to point that out? Speculating on what he "should have" known is okay, but speculation on how he may have gotten there without being a closeted, enabling pervert is verboten? What's fair about that?
I understand that the abuse of a child is the worst possible offense. Sandusky (All I'm trying to do is keep the horror over what Sandusky did from impacting my view of the facts in relation to the actions of others. It's hard to separate because this is the worst thing ever. The disgust and revulsion over what Sandusky did carries over to everybody else no matter how little they may have known about it. Every single person on that campus, everybody who ever played there is now looked at with a twinge of suspicion. How could that have gone on and they didn't see or hear anything?
That goes to my argument that institutions are often irreparably harmed by allegations of this nature. Sex scandal at the college no matter who reports it? College becomes "that place where they were raping kids." Your best friend, business associate and partner is raping kids? Even if you're the whistleblower people will still wonder what you knew, how long it went on, why you didn't come forward sooner. Just happens. You become "the law firm where that guy was raping kids."
When there's a definitive answer to what Paterno knew and when, or if something else comes out (and it may, but that's not a given either) THEN decide what his ultimate fate is. He's been removed from his job and is the target of public scrutiny.
Call me whatever you want, but a 60-year history of (from all we know) doing things the right way qualifies the guy for at least the possibility that things are not as they appear on the surface and that maybe we're not seeing something or that we're seeing something we need to see to find an outlet for our collective rage.
There's the strong possibility that as this goes on and we learn more details I'll pick up rocks, too. I'll throw some with you if it's proven that he was as complicit as most of you have already decided he was. I just want to know and I want it to be without "must have" or "had to" speculation.
Before you go on a rampage, I'm not saying this is on the same scale at all, but how many times were we subjected to the argument that Cam "must have" known this, that or the other? We all accept that he lived in the same house with his father, was invested in the life decisions that were being made and had no knowledge of his dad's activities at all. That's perfectly plausible.
But now I'm Satan for suggesting that it's possibly plausible Paterno had limited knowledge (whether it was willfully limited or not is another discussion)? Not that it excuses his actions, but at least it puts some semblance of order to them and helps me understand? For that "I'm not the person you knew?" Hmmm. That's curious to me. I have no response to that.
Right now, PSU took steps to protect its image. Was firing Paterno an effort to help any of the kids? No, it was an effort to save face. That pisses me off. They fired him hoping that things will go easier on them down the road if more comes out. That's what bothers me, I guess.
If it was as widespread as it seems are the three or four who are gone the ONLY people who could have known?
Did McQueary not ever speak of it again except to his dad? Did the janitors not tell their wives or girlfriends? Tell somebody over drinks at the bar?
It's an awful, horrible thing. The focus on Paterno as if he is the devil incarnate and the only person capable of stopping this years ago is where I begin to lose grips with it.
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