The End of an Era: Paterno is Finished

[Saniflush]

So what you're saying is that he video taped it.  Got it.

[wesfau2]

I read the report.

Neither of those things are completely correct.

What has he admitted other than "he wishes he'd done more..."   That could mean a thousand things.  Could mean he wishes he'd killed the kids and buried them in the woods.   Could mean anything. 

There's no proof Paterno was specifically told what Sandusky was doing.  Inappropriate behavior has any number of potential meanings. 

What he knew is a gray area.

You're so wrong that you must be doing it to keep a debate of sorts going.

[Snaggletiger]

I won't try too hard to defend him, but he was defending Penn State.  Nobody wants this kind of thing to come out.  Even if he'd run to the media and screamed "PARIAH!" at Jerry there would still be stink on him and on the program. 

I'm sure Paterno was probably afraid that the stupid bastard would ruin everything he'd spent his whole life building. 

I'm still not convinced Paterno knew or understood the totality or the gravity of the situation.  Jerry had a problem.  Jerry's punishment was that he'd never get what he wanted.  Never be coach at Penn State and had to leave the program at the height of his career.  Leave and shut the fuck up or he would be exposed. 

I hate to tell all of you crusaders this, but the same scenario plays out at some school somewhere in the US every single day.  Every day.  Every single day. 

Nobody wants the disgrace, nobody wants the stigma, nobody wants the attention.  So the offender apologizes for the momentary lapse,expresses remorse for the accidental indiscretion, resigns or retires and it all goes away quietly.

My guess is that when it went away in 1999 for Paterno that was the end of it in his mind.

However, the problem is 2002.  I said the same thing earlier.  I can understand the whitewashing of this back in 98'-99'.  No real proof. We think Jerry might have a problem so he needs to step down, keep quiet, no waves and the program moves on.  But 2002 did happen, with proof, with an eye witness.  That's when the real problem began.  And the more that comes out every day, the more I'm convinced this was an epic cover up from top to bottom from that day forward. I truly believe they were all well aware of the fact that the knowledge of the 98' accusations was the most damning thing for them and they could either take their hits or duck down and hope it never surfaced.  It eventually did and I also believe this is the tip of the iceberg.

Soemthing I'd like to know, that may or may not ever come to light, is just how much power did JoPa have?  JoPa has always been the icon, the face of PSU, just as Bear Bryant was for so many years for Alabama.  I have no doubt that Bryant was the most influential and powerful man in this State during his heyday.  Was Paterno the same way.  At 84, certainly not..but 9-10 years ago and throughout his career before that?   

 

[Ranger12]

I heard today that at one time they had told Sandusky to not be bringing boys around campus anymore. So, basically they might as well have told him they will look the other way as long as he did what he was doing elsewhere. We also now know why in 1999 they guy chose his "foundation" over coaching when given that ultimatum. You also have to wonder why he never coached anywhere else? Did the 1998 incident become enough of an issue for other colleges and they would not dare touch him? Yet Penn State officials did not think much of it to let the guy hang around the program? I guess since the 2002 incident still was not enough to get the guy banned from the program, we see the type of mentality Penn State officials had.

I am still trying to rap my head around the GA, a grown man, running off and calling his father and then leaving the facility, abandoning that kid instead of helping him. Then apparently he kept quiet all these years until the grand jury investigation. How in the world is that guy still on the staff?

[Kaos]

However, the problem is 2002.  I said the same thing earlier.  I can understand the whitewashing of this back in 98'-99'.  No real proof. We think Jerry might have a problem so he needs to step down, keep quiet, no waves and the program moves on.  But 2002 did happen, with proof, with an eye witness.  That's when the real problem began.  And the more that comes out every day, the more I'm convinced this was an epic cover up from top to bottom from that day forward. I truly believe they were all well aware of the fact that the knowledge of the 98' accusations was the most damning thing for them and they could either take their hits or duck down and hope it never surfaced.  It eventually did and I also believe this is the tip of the iceberg.

Soemthing I'd like to know, that may or may not ever come to light, is just how much power did JoPa have?  JoPa has always been the icon, the face of PSU, just as Bear Bryant was for so many years for Alabama.  I have no doubt that Bryant was the most influential and powerful man in this State during his heyday.  Was Paterno the same way.  At 84, certainly not..but 9-10 years ago and throughout his career before that?

What part did Paterno play in 2002?  None. 

[Kaos]

You're so wrong that you must be doing it to keep a debate of sorts going.

The report mocks you.

[wesfau2]

What part did Paterno play in 2002?  None.

The part where he kicked the accusation up the ladder and refused to recognize or deal with the predator in his office.

[Snaggletiger]

What part did Paterno play in 2002?  None.

My whole point to this is Paterno had prior knowledge of his actions.  No way the GA telling him his former coach was doing the Great Sandusky in the shower with a kid was the first he knew of it.  An investigation was run years before on Sandusky taking a kid in the shower.  PSU apparently took some form of action to cover themselves in part by having the coach step down.  So when Paterno was told in 2002, he basically did nothing.  He told his superior?  Hell, they already knew.  Paterno played as much a part in the cover up as anyone on that campus.  He told his superior but when he saw they did not bring the police into it, he should have acted himself.  Unless he had no intention of doing anything other than covering it up. 

[Snaggletiger]

Okay, I probably could have condensed that into the same sentence that Wes just did.  I'm just feeling mighty verbose today.

[wesfau2]

My whole point to this is Paterno had prior knowledge of his actions.  No way the GA telling him his former coach was doing the Great Sandusky in the shower with a kid was the first he knew of it.  An investigation was run years before on Sandusky taking a kid in the shower.  PSU apparently took some form of action to cover themselves in part by having the coach step down.  So when Paterno was told in 2002, he basically did nothing.  He told his superior?  Hell, they already knew.  Paterno played as much a part in the cover up as anyone on that campus.  He told his superior but when he saw they did not bring the police into it, he should have acted himself.  Unless he had no intention of doing anything other than covering it up.

This guy gets it.

[JR4AU]

This guy gets it.

I don't have to believe Joe knew about Sandusky long before this to get where I am,  but I do believe he did. 

Let's say he didn't.  GA reports to Joe, soft peddled because it's Sandusky: "Coach, I think I saw Coach Sandusky doing something of a sexual nature with a kid in the lockerroom shower."  Joe didn't see it, it's a serious enough allegation even soft peddled, but he wants to handle it right.  Reports up the chain.  He's golden right up to the time he next sees Sandusky on campus or in Athletic Facilities and doesn't go back to his boss and ask what the fuck has been done about the Sandusky investigation.  Every moment after that, he's complicit.  He's responsible, in part, for every victim after that. 

[AUChizad]

I don't have to believe Joe knew about Sandusky long before this to get where I am,  but I do believe he did. 

Let's say he didn't.  GA reports to Joe, soft peddled because it's Sandusky: "Coach, I think I saw Coach Sandusky doing something of a sexual nature with a kid in the lockerroom shower."  Joe didn't see it, it's a serious enough allegation even soft peddled, but he wants to handle it right.  Reports up the chain.  He's golden right up to the time he next sees Sandusky on campus or in Athletic Facilities and doesn't go back to his boss and ask what the fuck has been done about the Sandusky investigation.  Every moment after that, he's complicit.  He's responsible, in part, for every victim after that.

Agree with this.

[Kaos]

My whole point to this is Paterno had prior knowledge of his actions.  No way the GA telling him his former coach was doing the Great Sandusky in the shower with a kid was the first he knew of it.  An investigation was run years before on Sandusky taking a kid in the shower.  PSU apparently took some form of action to cover themselves in part by having the coach step down.  So when Paterno was told in 2002, he basically did nothing.  He told his superior?  Hell, they already knew.  Paterno played as much a part in the cover up as anyone on that campus.  He told his superior but when he saw they did not bring the police into it, he should have acted himself.  Unless he had no intention of doing anything other than covering it up.

BTW, I was wrong.  No evidence Paterno knew about the 1998-99 incident.  Only that he was made aware of something inappropriate in 2002.  He told his bosses.

Call the media? Call the police?

That's not his place. 

He told who he was supposed to tell. Followed the rules.   You don't know what his contract says. He might be prohibited from talking outside of school about shit.  He may have been specifically told not to. 

Nobody's going to run to the media or the cops in opposition of their bosses.  Not even you (collective you, not individual). Not when they don't know the entire situation and there's no indication he did.

If he'd run to the media behind his bosses back?  He'd have been fired anyway. 


You want to start the crucifixion train? 

What about Joseph Miller? Steve Turchetta? What about the parents who knew and let it go?

Why is Mike McQueary (great name) still going to be on staff when he saw (allegedly) with his own eyes that Sandusky was piledriving kids?  How is that possibly the right move?

[Kaos]

  He's golden right up to the time he next sees Sandusky on campus or in Athletic Facilities and doesn't go back to his boss and ask what the fuck has been done about the Sandusky investigation.  Every moment after that, he's complicit.  He's responsible, in part, for every victim after that.

Really?  That's his job?  To monitor investigations? 

I tell my boss something (if I had one) I assume it's handled.  I don't go storming in his office demanding to know what was done.

One of my employees does that to me?  Fired. 

[JR4AU]

Really?  That's his job?  To monitor investigations? 

I tell my boss something (if I had one) I assume it's handled.  I don't go storming in his office demanding to know what was done.

One of my employees does that to me?  Fired.

Joe Pa wasn't some clock punching minion at PSU.  He had more responsibility than that in Happy Valley. 

[Token]

Kaos, you can type all of the bullshit you'd like.  The state of Pennsylvania has mandatory reporter laws that were adopted in 1996.  Joe Paterno, as an employee of that university, is a mandatory reporter and is required by law to report what he was told to a law enforcement agency.  Fuck what his contract says. 

[Townhallsavoy]

But isn't this more of a moral issue than a legal issue?

Who cares if Paterno met the letter of the law?  He's THE authority figure at Penn State.  Who was he going to go to?  Who at the university has more clout that JoePa? 

Considering Paterno's entire reputation is centered around his ability to cultivate leadership and integrity, it was his responsibility to ensure that Sandusky was referred to the police. 

This isn't money laundering or sexual harassment of a female coworker or a recruiting scandal or dometic abuse.

This was raping children.  Fondling and molesting the only innocent part of humanity we've got.

[Kaos]

Kaos, you can type all of the bullshit you'd like.  The state of Pennsylvania has mandatory reporter laws that were adopted in 1996.  Joe Paterno, as an employee of that university, is a mandatory reporter and is required by law to report what he was told to a law enforcement agency.  Fuck what his contract says.

Well. Then I guess Mike McQueary won't be coaching at Penn State this Saturday because he'll be in jail. 

Ooops. 

You can call out all the mandatory laws you want.  You're being purposely blind if you don't think these kind of things are settled quietly and behind closed doors on a daily basis.  Even in PA.

[Kaos]

But isn't this more of a moral issue than a legal issue?

Who cares if Paterno met the letter of the law?  He's THE authority figure at Penn State.  Who was he going to go to?  Who at the university has more clout that JoePa? 

Considering Paterno's entire reputation is centered around his ability to cultivate leadership and integrity, it was his responsibility to ensure that Sandusky was referred to the police. 

This isn't money laundering or sexual harassment of a female coworker or a recruiting scandal or dometic abuse.

This was raping children.  Fondling and molesting the only innocent part of humanity we've got.

I get that.  And if you asked him today he would probably say he failed to do what he should because he tried to do what was best for everybody. 

I also get that he did what he thought he was supposed to do.  Prime directive?  Protect Penn State.  It meant everything to him.  Still does.

Go to the police?  Seriously?  Last resort.  It's public then and even if he is the one who physically reports it, the stain will last forever. He knows that. 

Did his effort to protect what mattered to him most blow up in his ancient face?  Yeah. 

But crucifying him when there are DOZENS of other people who knew and did even less than Paterno? 

Fuck that. 

[Token]

Well. Then I guess Mike McQueary won't be coaching at Penn State this Saturday because he'll be in jail. 

Ooops. 

You can call out all the mandatory laws you want.  You're being purposely blind if you don't think these kind of things are settled quietly and behind closed doors on a daily basis.  Even in PA.

If were up to me, I'd have McQueary on the line in front of the firing squad also.  And honestly, I'm not certain that you don't need to be standing next to them.