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Ron Paul Says US Government Assassinated American Citizen

Ron Paul Says US Government Assassinated American Citizen
« on: September 30, 2011, 02:56:23 PM »
No link.  I'm sure it can be found. 

But this latest assassination victim in Yemen was an American citizen.  Never tried.  Never convicted.  Just a known (more legally: suspected) terrorist. 

And a drone was sent under the order of our government to kill him. 

So let the debate commence:

Is this a dangerous precedent to allow assassinations of terrorist citizens as long as we're really really hopefully sure they are actually a terrorist?

Or is this no problem at all because we were really really hopefully sure? 
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Re: Ron Paul Says US Government Assassinated American Citizen
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2011, 03:06:29 PM »
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/09/30/3950587/ron-paul-us-born-al-qaida-cleric.html

Quote
MANCHESTER, N.H. -- Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul is condemning the Obama administration for killing an American born al-Qaida operative without a trial.

Paul, a Texas congressman known for libertarian views, says the killing of Anwar al-Awlaki on Yemeni soil amounts to an "assassination." Paul warned the American people not to casually accept such violence against U.S. citizens, even those with strong ties to terrorism.

Anwar al-Awlaki was considered one of the most influential al-Qaida operatives wanted by the United States. U.S. and Yemen officials say he was killed in a U.S. air strike targeting his convoy Friday morning.

Paul made the comments to reporters after a campaign stop Friday at Saint Anselm College in New Hampshire. He said America's leaders must think hard about "assassinating American citizens without charges."

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Tarheel

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Re: Ron Paul Says US Government Assassinated American Citizen
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2011, 03:07:02 PM »
No link.  I'm sure it can be found. 

But this latest assassination victim in Yemen was an American citizen.  Never tried.  Never convicted.  Just a known (more legally: suspected) terrorist. 

And a drone was sent under the order of our government to kill him. 

So let the debate commence:

Is this a dangerous precedent to allow assassinations of terrorist citizens as long as we're really really hopefully sure they are actually a terrorist?

Or is this no problem at all because we were really really hopefully sure?

I don't have a link to Ron Paul's quote but here's a link to the story including an update that a second American citizen was killed in the air strike:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/us-official-us-citizen-who-edited-al-qaida-magazine-killed-with-al-awlaki-in-yemen-airstrike/2011/09/30/gIQAgcL29K_story.html

The second American follower of the Religion of Perpetual Rage killed was the editor of a DIY magazine on making IEDs and how-to guides on AK-47s.
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

GH2001

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Re: Ron Paul Says US Government Assassinated American Citizen
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2011, 04:00:16 PM »
Paul is being a moonbat here. An enemy combatant is just that. Nevermind the guy was a terrorist who had taken up residence in a state sponsoring terrorism. Fair game IMHO.
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Tarheel

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Re: Ron Paul Says US Government Assassinated American Citizen
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2011, 01:23:10 PM »
No link.  I'm sure it can be found. 

But this latest assassination victim in Yemen was an American citizen.  Never tried.  Never convicted.  Just a known (more legally: suspected) terrorist. 

And a drone was sent under the order of our government to kill him. 

So let the debate commence:

Is this a dangerous precedent to allow assassinations of terrorist citizens as long as we're really really hopefully sure they are actually a terrorist?

Or is this no problem at all because we were really really hopefully sure?


I read yesterday that Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX...and moonbat dookie) has claimed that the decision to kill al-Awlaki is an impeachable offense and that it should be considered against The Pharaoh (my word, not his...yes, I did report myself to ATTACKWATCH.COM again).  He (Paul) may not be off-base here but his rationale is for the wrong reason in my opinion.  If not a terrorist in the strictest sense Anwar al-Awlaki, as an American citizen, was clearly a traitor as defined by the Constitution...and he deserved what he got in my opinion.  But the Consitution is clear that the decision of the punishment of a traitor resides with the Congress...not with the President.  I suppose the next real question is how far public due process is to be taken in the case of someone who clearly committed treason?


Edit to add a link to an article that I was reading on this subject:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/65035.html
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 01:24:17 PM by Tarheel »
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

Re: Ron Paul Says US Government Assassinated American Citizen
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2011, 12:39:21 PM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/05/us-cia-killlist-idUSTRE79475C20111005

Quote
Secret panel can put Americans on "kill list"

(Reuters) - American militants like Anwar al-Awlaki are placed on a kill or capture list by a secretive panel of senior government officials, which then informs the president of its decisions, according to officials.

There is no public record of the operations or decisions of the panel, which is a subset of the White House's National Security Council, several current and former officials said. Neither is there any law establishing its existence or setting out the rules by which it is supposed to operate.

The panel was behind the decision to add Awlaki, a U.S.-born militant preacher with alleged al Qaeda connections, to the target list. He was killed by a CIA drone strike in Yemen late last month.

The role of the president in ordering or ratifying a decision to target a citizen is fuzzy. White House spokesman Tommy Vietor declined to discuss anything about the process.

Current and former officials said that to the best of their knowledge, Awlaki, who the White House said was a key figure in al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, al Qaeda's Yemen-based affiliate, had been the only American put on a government list targeting people for capture or death due to their alleged involvement with militants.

The White House is portraying the killing of Awlaki as a demonstration of President Barack Obama's toughness toward militants who threaten the United States. But the process that led to Awlaki's killing has drawn fierce criticism from both the political left and right.

In an ironic turn, Obama, who ran for president denouncing predecessor George W. Bush's expansive use of executive power in his "war on terrorism," is being attacked in some quarters for using similar tactics. They include secret legal justifications and undisclosed intelligence assessments.

Liberals criticized the drone attack on an American citizen as extra-judicial murder.

Conservatives criticized Obama for refusing to release a Justice Department legal opinion that reportedly justified killing Awlaki. They accuse Obama of hypocrisy, noting his administration insisted on publishing Bush-era administration legal memos justifying the use of interrogation techniques many equate with torture, but refused to make public its rationale for killing a citizen without due process.

Some details about how the administration went about targeting Awlaki emerged on Tuesday when the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Representative Dutch Ruppersberger, was asked by reporters about the killing.

The process involves "going through the National Security Council, then it eventually goes to the president, but the National Security Council does the investigation, they have lawyers, they review, they look at the situation, you have input from the military, and also, we make sure that we follow international law," Ruppersberger said.

LAWYERS CONSULTED

Other officials said the role of the president in the process was murkier than what Ruppersberger described.

They said targeting recommendations are drawn up by a committee of mid-level National Security Council and agency officials. Their recommendations are then sent to the panel of NSC "principals," meaning Cabinet secretaries and intelligence unit chiefs, for approval. The panel of principals could have different memberships when considering different operational issues, they said.

The officials insisted on anonymity to discuss sensitive information.

They confirmed that lawyers, including those in the Justice Department, were consulted before Awlaki's name was added to the target list.

Two principal legal theories were advanced, an official said: first, that the actions were permitted by Congress when it authorized the use of military forces against militants in the wake of the attacks of September 11, 2001; and they are permitted under international law if a country is defending itself.

Several officials said that when Awlaki became the first American put on the target list, Obama was not required personally to approve the targeting of a person. But one official said Obama would be notified of the principals' decision. If he objected, the decision would be nullified, the official said.

A former official said one of the reasons for making senior officials principally responsible for nominating Americans for the target list was to "protect" the president.

Officials confirmed that a second American, Samir Khan, was killed in the drone attack that killed Awlaki. Khan had served as editor of Inspire, a glossy English-language magazine used by AQAP as a propaganda and recruitment vehicle.

But rather than being specifically targeted by drone operators, Khan was in the wrong place at the wrong time, officials said. Ruppersberger appeared to confirm that, saying Khan's death was "collateral," meaning he was not an intentional target of the drone strike.

When the name of a foreign, rather than American, militant is added to targeting lists, the decision is made within the intelligence community and normally does not require approval by high-level NSC officials.

'FROM INSPIRATIONAL TO OPERATIONAL'

Officials said Awlaki, whose fierce sermons were widely circulated on English-language militant websites, was targeted because Washington accumulated information his role in AQAP had gone "from inspirational to operational." That meant that instead of just propagandizing in favor of al Qaeda objectives, Awlaki allegedly began to participate directly in plots against American targets.

"Let me underscore, Awlaki is no mere messenger but someone integrally involved in lethal terrorist activities," Daniel Benjamin, top counterterrorism official at the State Department, warned last spring.

The Obama administration has not made public an accounting of the classified evidence that Awlaki was operationally involved in planning terrorist attacks.

But officials acknowledged that some of the intelligence purporting to show Awlaki's hands-on role in plotting attacks was patchy.

For instance, one plot in which authorities have said Awlaki was involved Nigerian-born Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, accused of trying to blow up a Detroit-bound U.S. airliner on Christmas Day 2009 with a bomb hidden in his underpants.

There is no doubt Abdulmutallab was an admirer or follower of Awlaki, since he admitted that to U.S. investigators. When he appeared in a Detroit courtroom earlier this week for the start of his trial on bomb-plot charges, he proclaimed, "Anwar is alive."

But at the time the White House was considering putting Awlaki on the U.S. target list, intelligence connecting Awlaki specifically to Abdulmutallab and his alleged bomb plot was partial. Officials said at the time the United States had voice intercepts involving a phone known to have been used by Awlaki and someone who they believed, but were not positive, was Abdulmutallab.

Awlaki was also implicated in a case in which a British Airways employee was imprisoned for plotting to blow up a U.S.-bound plane. E-mails retrieved by authorities from the employee's computer showed what an investigator described as " operational contact" between Britain and Yemen.

Authorities believe the contacts were mainly between the U.K.-based suspect and his brother. But there was a strong suspicion Awlaki was at the brother's side when the messages were dispatched. British media reported that in one message, the person on the Yemeni end supposedly said, "Our highest priority is the US ... With the people you have, is it possible to get a package or a person with a package on board a flight heading to the US?"

U.S. officials contrast intelligence suggesting Awlaki's involvement in specific plots with the activities of Adam Gadahn, an American citizen who became a principal English-language propagandist for the core al Qaeda network formerly led by Osama bin Laden.

While Gadahn appeared in angry videos calling for attacks on the United States, officials said he had not been specifically targeted for capture or killing by U.S. forces because he was regarded as a loudmouth not directly involved in plotting attacks.

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Tarheel

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Re: Ron Paul Says US Government Assassinated American Citizen
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2011, 01:40:39 PM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/05/us-cia-killlist-idUSTRE79475C20111005

Thanks for posting this article, AUJarhead; long article but very interesting.  I still find myself in agreeance with Ron Paul on this issue to the extent that I think that Congress should have been involved beyond the broad use of the Congressional authorization following 11 Sep 2001 e.g. the secretive panel should have Congressional representation...not just executive branch appointees.

This was the key legal factoid within the article:
Quote
...
They confirmed that lawyers, including those in the Justice Department, were consulted before Awlaki's name was added to the target list.

Two principal legal theories were advanced, an official said: first, that the actions were permitted by Congress when it authorized the use of military forces against militants in the wake of the attacks of September 11, 2001; and they are permitted under international law if a country is defending itself.

...
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

GH2001

  • *
  • 23914
  • I'm a Miller guy. Always been. Since I was like, 8
Re: Ron Paul Says US Government Assassinated American Citizen
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2011, 01:52:38 PM »
Now, Ron Paul is joining in with the Occupy Wall Street loons.

Sorry, Congressman Paul - you have officially went 100% moonbat and lost me. Nice knowing ya in this election.
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