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This whole debt ceiling thing

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This whole debt ceiling thing
« on: August 02, 2011, 01:06:20 PM »
So to put this on a personal level.

I wake up one month and realize the following:

1.  that I have been making $100,000/year for the last few years.
2.  I have been spending $140,000/ year for the last few years
3.  My overspending has rung up a credit card tab of $120,000
4.  I can only afford to pay the minimum
5.  I have reached my credit limits and can borrow no more

My solution:

1.  Mr credit card company I need you to raise my credit limit by another $100,000 or so
2.  I promise that I will continue to make about $100,000/year and try my best to increase my earnings in the coming years
3.  I promise I will cut my overspending by 10%
4.  If you don't extend my additional credit I will be forced to prioritize my spending in order to keep up my    lifestyle.
5.  I have come to the conclusion that you (mr credit card company) will be the expense that I can no longer afford
6. Thank you in advance for understanding.


Now you understand the absurdity of all this?
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AUTiger1

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Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2011, 01:15:11 PM »
I get it, you get it, we know that congress truly gets it........the question I am wondering is, why won't they do something about it?
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Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2011, 01:23:43 PM »
I get it, you get it, we know that congress truly gets it........the question I am wondering is, why won't they do something about it?

Because no one wants to be the one to make cuts.  Because wants you start cutting, you're not getting reelected.
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AUTiger1

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Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2011, 01:29:48 PM »
Because no one wants to be the one to make cuts.  Because wants you start cutting, you're not getting reelected.

Ding, Ding, Ding!

It's all about keeping your seat and the perks that come along with said seat.  It pisses me off that their greed is fucking with peoples livelihood.   They need to remember why they are there.  AUTR's idea of getting rid of every last one of them and starting with all new members is a great one.
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Courage is only fear holding on a minute longer.--George S. Patton

There are gonna be days when you lay your guts on the line and you come away empty handed, there ain't a damn thing you can do about it but go back out there and lay em on the line again...and again, and again! -- Coach Pat Dye

It isn't that liberals are ignorant. It's just they know so much that isn't so. --Ronald Reagan

Snaggletiger

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Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2011, 01:31:36 PM »
Because no one wants to be the one to make cuts.  Because wants you start cutting, you're not getting reelected.

This, this and this.  Going back to the One's speech past week.  It was a campaign speech and nothing more.  The "little man" and woman put him in office and all he said was how it's only "fair" that the rich pay more.  Yeah, that's right.  You tell em' Barack.  On the other hand, Republicans know that cutting spending is a big part of the answer but how do you tell Mr. XYZ Corporation that helped put you in office that we now taketh away?  Instead, "Hey, we're going to have to hit you with a little more tax but not to worry...we'll put another loophole in the tax code so you won't be hit too hard.  MmmK?  Thx."
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Godfather

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Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2011, 01:50:50 PM »
Ok first off, we have raised the debt ceiling 78 times since 1970 this is not a new thing.  Why was this such a big deal then?  Well basically the Republicans wanted to make Obammer look bad. 

Now obviously its not as cut and dry as that, but that is one of the main ideas.  The problem I have with all of this is that they aren't really making actual cuts.  The budget will still be raised 8% in 2012 and another 8% in 2013 and so on. It also didn't put any restrains on discretionary spending.

Right now we are roughly at 92% of GDP in relation to debt.  Estimates have us above 100% of GDP by 2018 which isn't good. With a National Debt figure of 20 trillion by 2020

What we truly need is an complete overhaul of the system.  We need balance budget reform, and a new tax code.  We also need to make senators and congressmen part of the system.  No free health care for the rest of your life after serving one term and no full pension either.  You get social security and private health care.  Wanna bet they would make some decisions then!

See all that happened over the last couple of days was political pandering, and how it affects you are I is that they fuck up the markets.
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AUTailgatingRules

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Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2011, 02:30:06 PM »
Ok first off, we have raised the debt ceiling 78 times since 1970 this is not a new thing.  Why was this such a big deal then?  Well basically the Republicans wanted to make Obammer look bad. 

Now obviously its not as cut and dry as that, but that is one of the main ideas.  The problem I have with all of this is that they aren't really making actual cuts.  The budget will still be raised 8% in 2012 and another 8% in 2013 and so on. It also didn't put any restrains on discretionary spending.

Right now we are roughly at 92% of GDP in relation to debt.  Estimates have us above 100% of GDP by 2018 which isn't good. With a National Debt figure of 20 trillion by 2020

What we truly need is an complete overhaul of the system.  We need balance budget reform, and a new tax code.  We also need to make senators and congressmen part of the system.  No free health care for the rest of your life after serving one term and no full pension either.  You get social security and private health care.  Wanna bet they would make some decisions then!

See all that happened over the last couple of days was political pandering, and how it affects you are I is that they fuck up the markets.

While I agree with most all of this, I have to take note on your first sentence.  The main reason this is a little different is because this rise in the debt ceiling is the LARGEST EVER IN OUR HISTORY.  Not to mention that it will only last about 1 year to 1 1/2 years and we will need to do it again. 

Guess when the 2nd largest debt ceiling increase was?  That's right just a year or so ago under this same president.
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Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2011, 02:57:16 PM »
Republicans want to sabotage Obama by making the American people who rely on government spending to feel pain as the programs are cut. 

The good in this is that the American people (99% of them) do not need to rely on the government. 

The bad is that the Republicans are just as guilty as pandering to the American people by promising to be the solution for them.

How they are going to spin this so that it's Obama's fault come election time is unbeknownst to me. 

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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

Saniflush

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Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2011, 02:59:03 PM »
I still say kick every fucking one of them out.

Start from scratch while we ALL tighten the belt.

You fuckers make me benevolent dictator for 4-8 years and I'll go Andy Jackson on their ass.  I will not be liked but the shit will be straightened out.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 03:06:30 PM by Saniflush »
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

Snaggletiger

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Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2011, 03:33:48 PM »
I still say kick every fucking one of them out.

Start from scratch while we ALL tighten the belt.

You fuckers make me benevolent dictator for 4-8 years and I'll go Andy Jackson on their ass.  I will not be liked but the shit will be straightened out.

Sharika blow me and say my dictate good.
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GarMan

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Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2011, 03:37:17 PM »
From another forum...

Quote
Having exhausted the “Tea Party is racist” meme and in their spirit of promoting “civil political discourse”, it is now fashionable for DC and media insiders to refer to Tea Party Congress members as “terrorists”. It’s no wonder the elites are terrified. They’ve never come across politicians who
1) Keep Their Campaign Promises
2) Don’t Give A Whit About Being Re-elected and
3) Can’t Be Bought Off By Some Wasteful Pork Project.

Scary, scary stuff! Better get Napolitano on it ASAP!

Well said, if you "axe" me...
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AUTailgatingRules

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Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2011, 03:39:29 PM »
 

The good in this is that the American people (99% of them) do not need to rely on the government. 



50% of the public pays no income tax, 45 million on food stamps????  I believe the number that needs to rely on gov't is slightly more than 1%
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GarMan

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Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2011, 03:42:49 PM »
Republicans want to sabotage Obama... 

The good in this is that the American people (99% of them) do not need to rely on the government. 

The bad is that the Republicans are just as guilty...

How they are going to spin this so that it's Obama's fault come election time is unbeknownst to me.

Barry wanted a "balanced approach" combining spending cuts with tax increases.  The Repubicrats held out and did not permit any tax increases.  Of course, the spending cuts are insignificant compared to the annual overspending, but it's more than what the Demoncraps proposed.  Technically, this should be a big win, but I'm not happy with it. 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Saniflush

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Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2011, 03:51:27 PM »
Sharika blow me and say my dictate good.

Hope she wasn't in 9th grade.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

GH2001

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Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2011, 04:00:56 PM »
Ok first off, we have raised the debt ceiling 78 times since 1970 this is not a new thing.  Why was this such a big deal then?  Well basically the Republicans wanted to make Obammer look bad. 

Now obviously its not as cut and dry as that, but that is one of the main ideas.  The problem I have with all of this is that they aren't really making actual cuts.  The budget will still be raised 8% in 2012 and another 8% in 2013 and so on. It also didn't put any restrains on discretionary spending.

Right now we are roughly at 92% of GDP in relation to debt.  Estimates have us above 100% of GDP by 2018 which isn't good. With a National Debt figure of 20 trillion by 2020

What we truly need is an complete overhaul of the system.  We need balance budget reform, and a new tax code.  We also need to make senators and congressmen part of the system.  No free health care for the rest of your life after serving one term and no full pension either.  You get social security and private health care.  Wanna bet they would make some decisions then!

See all that happened over the last couple of days was political pandering, and how it affects you are I is that they fuck up the markets.

Hope your first sentence is pure sarcasm. You're a sharp guy financially, so you know exactly why it is a big deal.

It is a big deal because we are quickly approaching the point where the incoming revenues will not be able to pay debt service. Our "minimum payment", that AUTR referenced above in his example which is spot on, will be higher than what we will be able to pay if the national debt goes much higher. UNLESS....revenues increase which = tax increase/spending decrease. And you want to talk about shit hitting the fan? Default will not be the word. We would more or less be in "Collections" to the Chicomms by our own fucking bank.

Which leads me to agree with your overall point or the bigger picture. The entire system needs to be dealt with from top to bottom. The way our monetary system is setup is one big failure. Its fiat money.

Most economists with half a brain refer to it as "monetizing the debt". As an example, if the US Government wants to borrow $1 million dollars, they go to the Fed to borrow the money. The Fed calls the Treasury and says print 10,000 Federal Reserve Notes in units of one hundred dollars.

The Treasury charges the Fed 2.3 cents for each note, for a total of $230 for the 10,000 Notes. The Fed then lends the $1 million to the government at face value plus interest. Can you say racket?

Look at the economy in the late 90's. Things were booming. Why? Because the Fed had been very liberal with its debt/credit/money, as we have now found out with the housing collapse (Fannie, Freddie, etc). The market was hyperinflated. BUT, who creates inflation? The Fed. How do they deal with inflation? They restrict the debt/credit/money. What happens when they do that? The market collapses, becomes stagnant. Stagflation occurs. Which is what is happening now.

All total Bullshit.


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WDE

Snaggletiger

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Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2011, 04:01:16 PM »
Hope she wasn't in 9th grade.

She wanted it so it's all good.
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My doctor told me I needed to stop masturbating.  I asked him why, and he said, "because I'm trying to examine you."

Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2011, 04:19:33 PM »
50% of the public pays no income tax, 45 million on food stamps????  I believe the number that needs to rely on gov't is slightly more than 1%

Why should they rely government?  Because of food stamps?  Because they can't find a job? 

This is a slippery slope.  You're going to end up right back where are today. 

If people want people to eat, go buy them food.  Take a pay cut to help your company hire more employees. 

Saying the government is responsible for these type of problems is just an easy out for those of us who don't have them. 

"People on food stamps need the government to buy them food because it's immoral to allow people to starve, and I don't want to foot their bill.  But don't tax me too much to do it or I won't elect you." 
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AUTailgatingRules

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Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2011, 04:27:47 PM »
Why should they rely government?  Because of food stamps?  Because they can't find a job? 

This is a slippery slope.  You're going to end up right back where are today. 

If people want people to eat, go buy them food.  Take a pay cut to help your company hire more employees. 

Saying the government is responsible for these type of problems is just an easy out for those of us who don't have them. 

"People on food stamps need the government to buy them food because it's immoral to allow people to starve, and I don't want to foot their bill.  But don't tax me too much to do it or I won't elect you."

I agree that we should EXPECT 99% should not have to rely on gov't (probably closer to 95% but lets not argue), however you will never convince the vast majority of the people that currently live off gov't.  Just saying, good luck with your 99% argument
« Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 04:28:36 PM by AUTailgatingRules »
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Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2011, 04:42:05 PM »
If people want people to eat, go buy them food. 

And my issue with food stamps, and I saw this first hand 15 years ago working at Winn-Dixie in Auburn, is that the food being bought consisted of name brand cereals, steak, ribs, etc.  Sure, not all people on food stamps came in and bought expensive stuff, some bought essentials...  bread, rice, milk, etc, but I'd say more than half that I personally rang out bought items that I would consider "non-essential."  But then again, if I were on food stamps, my goal would be to buy as much food as I could.  What's more important, feeding my family for a week, or having one kick ass Super Bowl Party?

My solution for food stamps is to do away with it, and set up distribution centers where you are given groceries for the week, based on how many people in your household.  The box would consist of fresh bread, rice, fresh vegetables, fresh fruit, milk, cereal.  Or just give 'em MREs. 
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Godfather

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Re: This whole debt ceiling thing
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2011, 05:22:16 PM »
Hope your first sentence is pure sarcasm. You're a sharp guy financially, so you know exactly why it is a big deal.

It is a big deal because we are quickly approaching the point where the incoming revenues will not be able to pay debt service. Our "minimum payment", that AUTR referenced above in his example which is spot on, will be higher than what we will be able to pay if the national debt goes much higher. UNLESS....revenues increase which = tax increase/spending decrease. And you want to talk about shit hitting the fan? Default will not be the word. We would more or less be in "Collections" to the Chicomms by our own fucking bank.


Yes and no.... we are one of only 2 countries that even have a debit ceiling (I believe the other is Norway and there's is so high they will never reach it).  Remember, that the debit limit itself is only a way to put stop limits on congress (created during WWI to control the issuance of war bonds).  If a debt ceiling is in place congress (ie the treasury) is not able to issue more bonds thereby funding the government.   As AUTR said this is the highest to date but only because of the amount of spending that has happened.  There will be another raise that will then be the highest in history.  I do believe the reason that so much is made about it is because of the state of the nation financially. However, in my opinion the news media thrives on fear, and the fear that they sell causes the markets to react. We have been through a debt ceiling before and I will bet dollars to donuts most of you never knew it had been voted on.  So basically the reason I say yes and no is that while I don't see the raising of the debit ceiling being important meaning it was bound to happen. The outcome and where we go from here is very important.

I hate the man in office currently, I didn't think he was the answer then, and he has proved he isn't the answer now.  To me he is not a leader, he is a puppet and quite frankly I believe he is in over his head.  That being said this is also not all his fault, is he to blame for a lot of it yes.  He has had his own agenda from the beginning and his fiscal spending has been through the roof.  The problem as I see it is where do we go from here?  He definitely needs to be gone, but I am not crazy about the incoming class of Republicans either, and will it make a difference?  I don't have the answers.  People far smarter than me are supposed to, but they have to go campaign now.

« Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 05:27:17 PM by Godfather »
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