How Dumb Are We?

[Townhallsavoy]

Simple answer?

We privatize education.  Take it out of the public sector, away from the bloated unions, away from political appointees. 

Another thing that should be done is to change the whole college situation. 


Education should be run thus:

Ages 6-13, basic instruction in English, Math, Science, Writing and Literature.  Combine with health and nutrition programs so they learn what to eat, when to shit and why their little dicks get hard when the wind blows.

Ages 14-17:  Basic instruction in english, math, science, writing and lit.  Combine with health and nutrition programs.  Add in life skills tutoring:  how to balance a checkbook, how to fill out resumes, how to handle interviews, how to work in a team environment.

Age 18 - 20:  Fuck basic english, math, science, writing and lit.  Should have gotten that in the previous 12 years.  For two years you get straight community service.  Military or something of that sort. 

Age 21 - death:  Two tracks:  Apprentice program for those who either cannot master the basics and want to move directly to a factory/working career  or professional track with specific instruction (and performance measures) in the field of choice plus higher level instruction in writing, literature and field-specific math.   Tracks start every three months so if you start out in nursing find you hate it, you can back up and start over as a lawyer or pharmacist or engineer.

I was cheering until I hit age 18.  Military?  Were you in the military? 

I say we keep the same grade system.

K-6 is basic Grammar, Reading, Math, Science, PE, and Music/Art.  Incorporate history and social sciences into English.  Little kids can't handle the reality of history. 

7-9 is Writing, Math, Science, History, PE, and Nutrition.  And elective is offered. 

10-12 is Writing, Math, Science, History, PE, and Electives.

Here's the catch - every school year has a theme/goal.  For example, 10th grade is going to study the cause of the American Revolution.  So we read historical pieces from 1492-1800.  We write about the causes of the revolution.  We do math about the revolution.  We study the science of the revolution.  Biology?  Well what happens when someone gets shot in the stomach?  What systems are involved, and how does that affect the body? 

I'm not saying you focus every day on the American Revolution.  But you plan so that at the end of the year, every 10th grade student has had a purpose for learning what they've learned. 

[Townhallsavoy]

Now hold on just a minute.  Recognizing an obvious problem does not mean you are racist. 

If you are shot by a Chinese person, it's not racist to say a Chinese guy shot you.  It's just the truth. 

If minorities are to blame (and through no fault of their own, the social experiement of integration has largely backfired) you're not racist to say that it's so.   

Hate to piss on your party, but that kind of thinking is why we are in this mess.  Nobody's willing to just say what's out there.  Got to be politically correct and fake it.

Is the problem the race, or is the system the problem? 

That's what I'm trying to say.  I'm not going to say that black people are bringing down education because they're black.

[AUTailgatingRules]

Is the problem the race, or is the system the problem? 

That's what I'm trying to say.  I'm not going to say that black people are bringing down education because they're black.

No, it's because of the black culture

[GarMan]

Is the problem the race, or is the system the problem? 

That's what I'm trying to say.  I'm not going to say that black people are bringing down education because they're black.

It's the inner-city thug culture that demonizes the man's way of getting ahead...  Race has nothing to do with it.  It's the schitty insignificant subcultures that Leftist Goons believe require protection under multiculturalism, the big socioeconomic failure. 

[Townhallsavoy]

It can't be fixed.  Not by legislation.  I figured out with my first supervisor position 8 years ago that I couldn't help people to be responsible with their money.  I couldn't talk them into shredding every credit card offer they get.  I couldn't teach them the importance of being at work on time and being reliable.  I couldn't motivate them to want more.  It was impossible.  Because their parents did a shitty job of raising them and it was too late to change their habits of making bad choices. 

After nearly stressing myself completely out trying to motivate those stupid fucking idiots, I finally figured a few things out.  I don't have enough money and power to fix our country.  And even if I did, it would nearly take a communistic approach to get us back on track.  The only way that we can fix this country is to teach our children responsibility and focus heavily on education and finances.  And I don't mean, put them on the school bus and let them go.  No offense THS, I appreciate the work you guys do with our kids, but IMO, there's only so much you can teach my child.  The rest (and it's a significant portion) is on me.  I have a handful of fun critical thinking skills test that I quiz my two with.  They both respond well to the test, as long as it involves something they are interested in.

Of course, the downside is, my 9 year old is beginning to become argumentative about everything.  The old, "because I said so" bit doesn't fly with him.  He wants to know the rationale to every simple thing I ask of him, then he wants to tell me a better way to do it.

It's a partnership.  You're doing your role.  Maybe you're in a great school system, and you can trust that the school will do theirs.

Unfortunately for many kids, they aren't getting either.  Parents suck, and the schools are saying the kids suck too.  So the kids get put in a classroom where the curriculum is streamlined right into the prison cell or the janitor employment line. 

You think I'm kidding?  I and the other teachers that teach "regular" English were forced to give our kids an article about how fucking happy mechanics and welders are.  I'm not saying those are horrible jobs and that people who have those jobs shouldn't be proud.  But why are we telling 9th graders that they should be welders?  Where's the liberty in telling any student - smart or dumb - what they should strive to be in life?

Anyways, back to your point.  You're giving your son the tools to be successful in life.  Most likely, he'll go through high school thinking it was a waste of time.  My point is that it doesn't have to be a waste of time. 

[Snaggletiger]

I don't know if it's so much a "black" problem as it is a ghetto thang.  I keed but again, I go to my wife's situation at the public school she left.  My daughter started at this elementary school shortly after my wife and the ratio was about 50/50 black to white.  In the years that followed, the neighborhoods around the school quickly deteriorated and the proverbial "white flight" occurred as more and more white families took their kids out and put them in county or private schools.  The ratio when my wife left was right at 90/10 black to white. 

The biggest issue with the change was parent involvement or lack thereof.  To illustrate, she had one...count em'..ONE parent show up the entire year for open houses or parent/teacher conferences.  They sent home flyers once for a very important PTA meeting and put it on the billboard out front.  I always went to those even when my kid was no longer there.  Place was usually packed but it started to dwindle.  Went this one night during that last year.  Not one soul showed up.  Out of the entire school.

Was it a black problem?  Can't specifically say that and yes, that paints with too broad a brush.  But, the neighborhoods that this school draws from had deteriorated into just horrible areas.  The overall "quality" of student...or more importantly... parents...had plummeted and the school itself bbecame a babysitting service with free lunches and breakfast. 

[Kaos]

It's the inner-city thug culture that demonizes the man's way of getting ahead...  Race has nothing to do with it.  It's the schitty insignificant subcultures that Leftist Goons believe require protection under multiculturalism, the big socioeconomic failure.

Success, conformity, follwing the rules, trying to achieve, striving to learn.... these are all things that are now mocked and ridiculed. 

When I taught I had numerous kids who would ask me not to praise them for good work because they didn't want to get a rep.  They would turn in garbage before letting one of their thug buddies know they were a good writer. 

Most of them didn't see the future in being smart.  Better to be strong, cunning, cruel and savvy.  Brains?  Who needs 'em. 

[AU_Tiger_2000]

I was cheering until I hit age 18.  Military?  Were you in the military? 

I say we keep the same grade system.

K-6 is basic Grammar, Reading, Math, Science, PE, and Music/Art.  Incorporate history and social sciences into English.  Little kids can't handle the reality of history. 

7-9 is Writing, Math, Science, History, PE, and Nutrition.  And elective is offered. 

10-12 is Writing, Math, Science, History, PE, and Electives.

Here's the catch - every school year has a theme/goal.  For example, 10th grade is going to study the cause of the American Revolution.  So we read historical pieces from 1492-1800.  We write about the causes of the revolution.  We do math about the revolution.  We study the science of the revolution.  Biology?  Well what happens when someone gets shot in the stomach?  What systems are involved, and how does that affect the body? 

I'm not saying you focus every day on the American Revolution.  But you plan so that at the end of the year, every 10th grade student has had a purpose for learning what they've learned.

That sounds pretty good.  It actually reminded me of something I read in James Bradley (author of Flags of Our Fathers) book Flyboys about the pre WW2 educational system of Japan.  Except in that case it was directed at the kids learning information that would prepare them for a country at war.  I remember it talking about how in reading the kids would have read imperial edicts and then write about them.  Math class involved word problems dealing military logistics.  Science class involved practical science of how radios, radars, engines, etc worked.

What it ended up doing was turning out a couple of generations of disciplined kids that turned Japan into a technological and economical juggernaut that only started to fade when they adopted more "western" cultural influence.

[CCTAU]

We had it right at one time. Vocational schools. Some children NEED to be left behind. After the 10th grade every child should have to choose, college or vocational. If you chose college and you became a problem, YOU ARE NOW A BRICK-LAYER. HAVE A NICE DAY.

We used to put out some very talented individuals form the vocational schools. These people KNEW they did not want to go to college. So we gave them an avenue to to learn a trade. Now, for some reason, we think every child has the God given right to higher education. Nobody seems to have to earn anything any more.

Repeal the NCLB and open up more vocational schools.

[AUTailgatingRules]

We had it right at one time. Vocational schools. Some children NEED to be left behind. After the 10th grade every child should have to choose, college or vocational. If you chose college and you became a problem, YOU ARE NOW A BRICK-LAYER. HAVE A NICE DAY.

We used to put out some very talented individuals form the vocational schools. These people KNEW they did not want to go to college. So we gave them an avenue to to learn a trade. Now, for some reason, we think every child has the God given right to higher education. Nobody seems to have to earn anything any more.

Repeal the NCLB and open up more vocational schools.

The world needs ditch diggers too

[AUJarhead]

Points that have been raised that I agree with totally:

1) Merit pay.  No.  Fucking.  Way.

When my wife and I lived in Atlanta, she taught 4th grade at a school off Bankhead Highway.  She would have students that came into her class that couldn't read.  Not at a 4th grade level.  Not at a kindergarten level.  But who couldn't read.  Fucking period.  By the end of the school year, they were reading at a kindergarten level.  You and I would look at that and say that she had success with them.  Merit pay would say, well, they aren't reading at a 4th grade level, so my wife wouldn't be eligible.

2) It's the parents.

Same school in Atlanta.  During Christmas, I'd go into the classroom for the Christmas party (fucking PC, it's a Christmas party, not a fucking holiday party).  So one time, I read to the kids.  This girl comes up to me after and told me that I was the first male to have ever read a book to her.

As mentioned earlier, when my wife would need parents to volunteer for things, she'd be lucky to get one.  Contrast that to the school outside St Louis  We live in a small community.  Very close to an AFB, I'd say about 30% of her class right now is made up of military brats.  Another 40% are farmer's kids.  When she asks for volunteers, she has more parents than children.

Some of these kids in Atlanta are just in no win situations.  Single parent homes, with the mom working 2 or 3 jobs, just to make ends meet.  The 4th grader, who was the oldest, would have to make dinner for the 2nd grader and 1st grader. 

But how do you fix that?  I have no fucking idea.  And don't get me wrong, when I'd go into the class in Atlanta, the kids were great.  They were energetic, they wanted to learn.  I think, as cliche as this sounds, all they need is some love.

[Saniflush]

Some of these kids in Atlanta are just in no win situations.  Single parent homes, with the mom working 2 or 3 jobs, just to make ends meet.  The 4th grader, who was the oldest, would have to make dinner for the 2nd grader and 1st grader. 

yeah pretty shitty.  Tarheel and I are involved in a backpack program  in the area where we supply just some basic meal items to kids in need and you have this happening on a regular basis.

[GH2001]

Some of these kids in Atlanta are just in no win situations.  Single parent homes, with the mom working 2 or 3 jobs, just to make ends meet.  The 4th grader, who was the oldest, would have to make dinner for the 2nd grader and 1st grader. 

But how do you fix that?  I have no fucking idea.  And don't get me wrong, when I'd go into the class in Atlanta, the kids were great.  They were energetic, they wanted to learn.  I think, as cliche as this sounds, all they need is some love.

All goes back to the family structure and what happens at home with the parents. The traditional family structure and moral values are mocked now, but it works. You are seeing that now. Its more important to be "cool" than it is to succeed. Having a dad who whips your ass when you're out of line is needed in every house. And now, that is not accepted anymore. Whipping kids is "mean" and not pc these days.

[Townhallsavoy]

2) It's the parents.

Same school in Atlanta.  During Christmas, I'd go into the classroom for the Christmas party (fucking PC, it's a Christmas party, not a fucking holiday party).  So one time, I read to the kids.  This girl comes up to me after and told me that I was the first male to have ever read a book to her.

As mentioned earlier, when my wife would need parents to volunteer for things, she'd be lucky to get one.  Contrast that to the school outside St Louis  We live in a small community.  Very close to an AFB, I'd say about 30% of her class right now is made up of military brats.  Another 40% are farmer's kids.  When she asks for volunteers, she has more parents than children.

Some of these kids in Atlanta are just in no win situations.  Single parent homes, with the mom working 2 or 3 jobs, just to make ends meet.  The 4th grader, who was the oldest, would have to make dinner for the 2nd grader and 1st grader. 

But how do you fix that?  I have no fucking idea.  And don't get me wrong, when I'd go into the class in Atlanta, the kids were great.  They were energetic, they wanted to learn.  I think, as cliche as this sounds, all they need is some love.

I'm not sure we can fix it.

But I don't think the system should be focused on granting leniency to those in situations such as that. 

[AUTiger1]

Points that have been raised that I agree with totally:

1) Merit pay.  No.  effing.  Way.

When my wife and I lived in Atlanta, she taught 4th grade at a school off Bankhead Highway.  She would have students that came into her class that couldn't read.  Not at a 4th grade level.  Not at a kindergarten level.  But who couldn't read.  effing period.  By the end of the school year, they were reading at a kindergarten level.  You and I would look at that and say that she had success with them.  Merit pay would say, well, they aren't reading at a 4th grade level, so my wife wouldn't be eligible.

2) It's the parents.

Same school in Atlanta.  During Christmas, I'd go into the classroom for the Christmas party (effing PC, it's a Christmas party, not a effing holiday party).  So one time, I read to the kids.  This girl comes up to me after and told me that I was the first male to have ever read a book to her.

As mentioned earlier, when my wife would need parents to volunteer for things, she'd be lucky to get one.  Contrast that to the school outside St Louis  We live in a small community.  Very close to an AFB, I'd say about 30% of her class right now is made up of military brats.  Another 40% are farmer's kids.  When she asks for volunteers, she has more parents than children.

Some of these kids in Atlanta are just in no win situations.  Single parent homes, with the mom working 2 or 3 jobs, just to make ends meet.  The 4th grader, who was the oldest, would have to make dinner for the 2nd grader and 1st grader. 

But how do you fix that?  I have no effing idea.  And don't get me wrong, when I'd go into the class in Atlanta, the kids were great.  They were energetic, they wanted to learn.  I think, as cliche as this sounds, all they need is some love.

Truth.   It goes a long way for some of the kids, some of the kids have it bad enough that they will just shell up.

[Kaos]

You fix it by sterilization. 

Have a second kid when you are on ADC already?   Bzzzz. Sew that shit up.

Father a child you can't support?  Snip. Cut that shit off. 

I know of one sonofabitch who had 12 kids by nine different women.  He wasn't yet 21 at the time.  Never had a job.  He should be castratred and the whores who lay with him sterilized. 

[CCTAU]

You fix it by sterilization. 

Have a second kid when you are on ADC already?   Bzzzz. Sew that shit up.

Father a child you can't support?  Snip. Cut that shit off. 

I know of one sonofabitch who had 12 kids by nine different women.  He wasn't yet 21 at the time.  Never had a job.  He should be castratred and the whores who lay with him sterilized.

While I agree with you, I still hold out hope for individuals that might get their lives together in the future. Many a great man hath started off awry. That being said, I would love to have a process by which you could deactivate the reproduction process for a said period of time (say five years). After said time, the individual could apply to have the process reversed. This way, those who grow out of their idiocy can have a second chance.

But barring a process of this type, I'm with you. You had your shot, you screwed the pooch. Now finish what you started.

[AU_Tiger_2000]

I used to listen to Howard Stern some when I had nothing better to do.  There is one thing he used to ask to the screwed up people who would appear on his show, "How old were you when you father left home?"  It was amazing (well not really) how often the people that he was interviewing would say 10 or 12 or I never knew my father.  The more screwed up the person's life was the more likely they were to not have a father, male role model, etc in their life.

[Kaos]

While I agree with you, I still hold out hope for individuals that might get their lives together in the future. Many a great man hath started off awry. That being said, I would love to have a process by which you could deactivate the reproduction process for a said period of time (say five years). After said time, the individual could apply to have the process reversed. This way, those who grow out of their idiocy can have a second chance.

But barring a process of this type, I'm with you. You had your shot, you screwed the pooch. Now finish what you started.

It's there. 

There's an insert for women that cuts them off for a long time.  Then, of course, they'd all claim to be catholics and religiously opposed to it. 

[AU_Tiger_2000]

It's there. 

There's an insert for women that cuts them off for a long time.  Then, of course, they'd all claim to be catholics and religiously opposed to it.

It's not 100%.  A friend got pregnant with the uteran insert, the doctor then had to remove it which was supposedly pretty risky for the baby.