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Our Beloved Former President Carter...

Tarheel

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Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« on: April 10, 2008, 06:13:17 PM »
has never met a terrorist, dictator, thug, or America hater that he hasn't liked.  Here's yet another example of why Carter needs to be committed to the nearest insane asylum.  Or perhaps his Hamas friends will take him as a hostage.  :silence:

Quote
Hamas confirms plan to meet Jimmy Carter
Would be highest-level U.S. audience for isolated terrorist group

JERUSALEM – The Hamas terrorist organization has confirmed to WND plans are in the works for former President Jimmy Carter to meet the chief of Hamas on a trip this month to Syria.

Sources in the Gaza Strip office of Ismail Haniyeh, the deposed prime minister of the Hamas-led Palestinian government, confirmed Hamas is in talks with Carter's representatives about setting up a meeting during his trip, scheduled for later this month.

The Hamas sources said no concrete date has been set but that Carter has expressed interest in meeting Hamas chieftain Khaled Meshaal, who resides in Syria.

In a statement to Fox News today, Carter's press secretary, Deanna Congileo, did not deny the former president was slated to meet Meshaal.

"President Carter is planning a trip to the Mideast next week; however, we are still confirming details of the trip and will issue a press release by the end of this week," Congileo said. "I cannot confirm any specific meetings at this point in time."

Earlier, Ahmed Yousuf, Hamas' top political adviser in the Gaza Strip, claimed to WND he wasn't aware of any Carter-Meshaal meeting.

"I don't know anything about any such meeting," said Yousuf, who advises Haniyeh.

Israeli security officials say Meshaal is responsible for coordinating all elements of Hamas and for calling for many of its major terror attacks.

Hamas is listed by the State Department as a terrorist organization. The group is responsible for scores of deadly suicide bombings, and thousands of shooting attacks and rocket firings against civilian population centers.

Just today, Hamas-allied gunmen took part in the deadly shooting of two Israeli civilians near the border between Egypt and the Gaza Strip.

FoxNews.com quoted a State Department spokesman in Washington stating the U.S. government is concerned about Carter's unsanctioned trip to Syria, which the Bush administration has been trying to isolate.

"The State Department has expressed our concerns and advised President Carter that past engagement with the Syrian regime has not produced positive results," the spokesman said.

If the meeting with Hamas takes place, Carter would be the highest-level American to meet with Hamas.

According to the London-based, Arab daily Al-Hayat, which first broke the story of Carter's planned meeting, the former president will represent his Carter Center foundation during his visit to Syria and will not travel in his capacity of former U.S. president.

John Bolton, former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, balked at that distinction.

"Maybe he'll give up his pension, but he's always a former president," Bolton told FoxNews.com.

The Fox News website reported it tried numerous times to reach the Carter Center for comment, but calls and e-mails were not returned.

from World Net Daily

Here's the link:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=61180
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

GarMan

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2008, 12:19:57 PM »
You do realize that if Hitler were still alive, he and Jimmy would probably be golfing buddies.   :blink:
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Tarheel

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2008, 01:01:03 PM »
You do realize that if Hitler were still alive, he and Jimmy would probably be golfing buddies.   :blink:


Reminds me of a bad joke about pizzas and Jews...Jimmy Carter being an avowed anti-semite would like it I'm sure.
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

Tarheel

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2008, 04:47:58 PM »
I heard this news this morning and I could not help but laugh.  The short version of this story is that practically all of Israel's government officials are shunning Carter while he is in their country.  The Shin Bet has declined to help the U. S. Secret Service to protect him while he is there (there's separate accounts of this...Carter officials have said that they requested protection but the Shin Bet says that they did not ask for it.  I suspect that the truth is somewhere between the two accounts.)  And Carter wanted to visit one of the jailed palestinian leaders but Israeli officials refused.

Here's the article:
Quote
Israel snubs Carter and declines security help
Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:34am EDT

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel's secret service declined to assist U.S. agents guarding former U.S. President Jimmy Carter during a visit in which Israeli leaders shunned him over his plans to meet Hamas, U.S. sources said on Monday.

"They're not getting support from local security," one of the sources said, on condition of anonymity.

An Israeli security source said the Shin Bet security service provided no protection to Carter during his visit to the Jewish state because no request was made.

Asked about the Israeli account, Carter's delegation, which had previously declined to comment, told Reuters in a statement: "The Carter delegation inquired with both the lead agent of the Secret Service detail (protecting Carter) and the State Department Regional Security Officer and were told unequivocally that an official request for assistance had been made."

American sources close to the matter said the Shin Bet, which helps protect visiting dignitaries and is overseen by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's office, declined to meet the head of Carter's Secret Service detail or provide his team with assistance as is customary during such visits.

Carter, who brokered Israel's first peace treaty with an Arab neighbor, Egypt, signed in 1979, met Israel's largely ceremonial president, Shimon Peres, on Sunday. But Israel's political leadership, including Olmert, steered clear of the Nobel Peace Prize winner.

The former U.S. leader has angered the Israeli government with plans to meet Hamas's top leader, Khaled Meshaal, in Syria, and for describing Israeli policy in the occupied Palestinian territories as "a system of apartheid" in a 2006 book.

Carter has defended talks with Hamas as an opportunity to gauge the group's willingness to accept Arab peace overtures.

He visited the Israeli border town of Sderot on Monday and said he was "distressed" by cross-border rockets fired by militants in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip.

"I think it's a despicable crime for any deliberate effort to be made to kill innocent civilians," Carter said, adding that he hoped a ceasefire would be reached soon.

Israel said it rejected Carter's request to meet jailed Palestinian uprising leader Marwan Barghouthi, who is seen as a possible successor to President Mahmoud Abbas.

Barghouthi was convicted in 2004 of murder by an Israeli court over the killing of four Israelis and a Greek Orthodox monk in attacks by Palestinian militants. He is serving five life sentences.

"UNPRECEDENTED" BREACH

An American source described as "unprecedented" the lack of Shin Bet cooperation with the U.S. Secret Service, which protects all current and former U.S. presidents, as well as Israeli leaders when they visit the United States.

The Bush administration and close U.S. ally Israel oppose Carter's planned meeting with Meshaal, whose Islamist group won Palestinian parliamentary elections in 2006 but was boycotted by the West for refusing to renounce violence and recognize Israel.

Israel and the United States have sought to isolate Hamas, which seized control of the Gaza Strip in June from more secular Fatah forces loyal to Abbas. Abbas holds sway in the occupied West Bank and has launched U.S.-backed peace talks with Olmert.

Hamas leaders have offered a long-term truce with Israel in return for a viable Palestinian state in the occupied West Bank and the Gaza Strip, but the group's 1988 founding charter calls for the destruction of the Jewish state.

(Additional reporting by Brenda Gazzar; Editing by Charles Dick)

Here's the link:
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1464259420080414?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&rpc=22&sp=true
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

GarMan

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2008, 05:23:00 PM »
I heard this news this morning and I could not help but laugh.  The short version of this story is that practically all of Israel's government officials are shunning Carter while he is in their country.  The Shin Bet has declined to help the U. S. Secret Service to protect him while he is there (there's separate accounts of this...Carter officials have said that they requested protection but the Shin Bet says that they did not ask for it.  I suspect that the truth is somewhere between the two accounts.)  And Carter wanted to visit one of the jailed palestinian leaders but Israeli officials refused.

Jimmy clearly has his finger on the pulse of the world.  Perhaps, Hamas "leaders" will welcome old Jimmy with a rusty saber and save the US from anymore embarrassment from this delusional clown.  His antics have been bordering on sedition for years. 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Tarheel

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2008, 04:33:52 PM »
Well, the laughs just continue as Carter romps through the Holy Land (all emphasis, underlines, and subtexts are my own annotations):

Quote
Carter kisses Hamas terrorist
Former president also lays wreath at 'peace fighter' Arafat's gravesite
Posted: April 15, 2008
1:45 pm Eastern

By Aaron Klein
© 2008 WorldNetDaily

RAMALLAH, West Bank – Former President Jimmy Carter today warmly embraced a top Hamas terrorist and laid a wreath on the gravesite of former Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, whom Carter called a "peace fighter" and a "dear friend," according to Palestinian officials speaking to WND.

Visiting the West Bank city of Ramallah, Carter attended a reception with Nasser Shaer, a senior Hamas leader. The reception was closed to the media, but according to participants and the Hamas leader, Carter hugged Shaer and kissed him on each cheek, the customary greeting for good friends. Many U.S. diplomats refrain from kissing Palestinian officials.

"He gave me a hug. We hugged each other, and it was a warm reception," Shaer told the Associated Press. "Carter asked what he can do to achieve peace between the Palestinians and Israel ... and I told him the possibility for peace is high."
>>>And that I'd like to see Israel pushed into the sea and obliterated along with the Jewish people.

Shaer previously served as deputy prime minister and education minister in the Hamas-led Palestinian government, which was toppled last year. He served time in Israeli prison after being charged with terrorist activities.

According to Israeli security officials, Shaer functioned as a financial and communications link between cells of the Hamas organization in Gaza and in the northern West Bank city of Nablus.

Prior to embracing Shaer, Carter met with officials from Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah organization at the Muqata, the main Fatah headquarters.

Carter paid a visit to the gravesite of Arafat, who is buried just outside the Muqata. Palestinian officials who escorted Carter told WND the former president paused for a moment of silence at Arafat's grave before laying a wreathe there.
>>>Brings a tear to my eye.

The Palestinian officials quoted Carter stating Arafat was a "peace fighter and a dear friend of mine."
>>>Nothing about him being a terrorist but Carter has never met a terrorist he hasn't liked.

They also quoted Carter calling Arafat a "partner in representing the question of justice in the world."

The officials said Carter repeatedly accused Israel of not implementing its side of agreements that called on the Jewish state to ease travel restrictions for Palestinians and to dismantle what are termed illegal outposts, or West Bank Jewish communities constructed without governmental permission.
>>>Maybe that's because Hamas keeps firing missiles into Sderot and other Israeli cities

Israel earlier this month dismantled 50 anti-terror roadblocks as a gesture to Abbas. The Israeli-Palestinian agreements also called for an end of Palestinian terrorism, but more than 100 incidents of terrorism have been carried out in the past 45 days alone, security officials pointed out.
>>>See what I mean?

Tayeb Abdel Rahim, Abbas' secretary general, told Carter that Arafat's burial site in Ramallah was only temporary until his remains can be transferred to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, Palestinian officials told WND.

>>>WHAT!?  WHAT!?  WHAT!?

In the years before his death in 2004, Israel and the U.S. attempted to isolate Arafat after he turned down a peace agreement in 2000 at U.S.-mediated peace talks at Camp David and, instead, returned to Ramallah to launch an intifada – or terrorist war – against the Jewish state.

Carter told reporters today he had requested permission to enter the Gaza Strip from Israel but was turned down.

He said he may meet with other Hamas leaders while visiting Syria later this week.

According to Hamas officials, Carter is slated to meet with Hamas chieftain Khaled Meshaal, who resides in Syria.

In a WND exclusive interview yesterday, Ahmed Yousuf, Hamas' top political adviser in the Gaza Strip, called Carter a "noble person" whose planned meeting with Hamas would help the terror organization "engage with the world community."

"Carter can achieve something no one else can. He is open-minded and has a very noble cause to come and meet with all people," said Yousuf, the chief political adviser to Ismail Haniyeh, the deposed prime minister of the Hamas-led Palestinian government.

Yousuf, the Hamas figure usually responsible for coordinating meetings with foreign officials, said Carter "should get credit because he is the one who really understands the (Israeli-Palestinian) conflict and knows what is needed to achieve peace."

>>>And that is the complete destruction of Israel and the Jewish people.

He indicated Carter's visit could help end Hamas' international isolation.

"If he comes and meets Hamas, this will also enhance the image and understanding between America and the Muslim world," said Yousuf, speaking by phone from Gaza. "Carter's visit is a good step and a positive step in the right direction. It would engage with the world community. To what degree he succeeds depends on the people in Europe and the U.S."

Yousuf blasted the Bush administration for "trying to block every attempt to lift sanctions against Hamas."

He accused "Zionists" and U.S. Jewish groups of "trying to sabotage" Carter's Middle East trip. "Some reports said American Jewish groups tried to stigmatize him with being connected to terrorism or working against Jewish ambitions at home," Yousef said.

>>>No anti-Semitism or anti-Americanism there! (sarcasm)

Asked if he believed Democrats would engage Hamas if the party takes the White House next year, Yousuf replied, "I do believe Democrats will make a drastic change in American foreign policy. I hope they are able to fix the damage done by [President] Bush and the Republicans and engage again in a very positive way with the Arab and Muslim world, where most of their vital interests lie."

Here's the link:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=61655
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

GarMan

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2008, 04:51:12 PM »
Well, the laughs just continue as Carter romps through the Holy Land (all emphasis, underlines, and subtexts are my own annotations):

Here's the link:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=61655

What a peace-loving people...  If they would only send a small nuke over right now, we could solve a few problems all at once.   :thumbsup:
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Tarheel

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2008, 04:59:11 PM »
What a peace-loving people...  If they would only send a small nuke over right now, we could solve a few problems all at once.   :thumbsup:

What the article did not say was that when Carter kissed the terrorist leader on each cheek he meant on each cheek of the terrorist's ass.
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

Lurking Tiger

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2008, 02:18:25 PM »
Hamas official Mushir Masri, in a fiery speech Friday to thousands of Hamas supporters in Gaza, said the meetings with Carter were proof that Hamas was not a terrorist group, but a national liberation movement.

"It confirms the failure of the U.S. and European policies of ignoring Hamas," he told the crowd. "It confirms that all the countries that assume Hamas is a terrorist group should reconsider."

Thanks Jimmy, you douchebag.
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Saniflush

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2008, 02:34:40 PM »
Yea I saw this a little while ago.  Borderline treason!
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

GarMan

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2008, 03:44:57 PM »
Yea I saw this a little while ago.  Borderline treason!

Borderline treason my ass...  Mr. Carter is undermining the efforts of the current and future administrations of the United States.  Even Barack al-Queada Obama is upset with Jimmy right now. 

I really like this idea...  http://www.ajc.com/uga/content/news/stories/2008/04/18/carter_passport.html

They should do it right now and leave his "bitter" ass over there!!! 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Saniflush

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2008, 03:54:56 PM »
Borderline treason my ass...  Mr. Carter is undermining the efforts of the current and future administrations of the United States.  Even Barack al-Queada Obama is upset with Jimmy right now. 

I really like this idea...  http://www.ajc.com/uga/content/news/stories/2008/04/18/carter_passport.html

They should do it right now and leave his "bitter" ass over there!!! 

I like it.  When I say treason I mean a hangable offense.  Hence why I say it's borderline.  Can't we just take his liver pills away?
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

AWK

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2008, 07:12:58 PM »
While agree with 0 % of what Jimmy Carter did, You guys do have to realize that if peace is ever to be realized that they have to be brought to the negotiating table.  If your response is that they are all terrorists (which I Agree), it still doesn't change the fact that we can't ignore them or just attempt to kill them all.  Both solutions will only attempt to validate their retarded beliefs and bring more to their cause. 
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Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall said, "Guys don't mind hitting Michael Vick in the open field, but when you see Cam, you have to think about how you're going to tackle him. He's like a big tight end coming at you."

GarMan

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2008, 08:34:23 PM »
While agree with 0 % of what Jimmy Carter did, You guys do have to realize that if peace is ever to be realized that they have to be brought to the negotiating table.  If your response is that they are all terrorists (which I Agree), it still doesn't change the fact that we can't ignore them or just attempt to kill them all.  Both solutions will only attempt to validate their retarded beliefs and bring more to their cause. 

Well, I respectfully and vehemently disagree.  Don't fall for the idea that these people maintain any of the same values as us.  They have no respect for human life.  These individuals are willing to strap a bomb to their chest, walk into a crowded shopping mall, and blow themselves up to kill as many "infidels" as they can.  They also don't respect the concept of this "negotiating table" that you speak of.  How many times have they come to peace agreements with Israel, and then turn around to be the first to fire rockets into Israel's cities targeting civilian populations?  Even their religion scoffs at the idea of these agreements.  They see them only as opportunities to re-arm and prepare for their next offensive assault. 

Nobody is suggesting that we "ignore them," and the last time I checked, we're not attempting to "kill them all."  We're breaking their spirit, which is the point of any military action.  Best of all, it's working contrary to what you hear in the evening news.  There have been no terrorist attacks against Americans since September 11th, 2001.  They tried in Syria, but that was foiled by Syrian security forces.  There have been no other embassy bombings, and there have been no attacks against any of our military bases outside of Iraq and Afghanistan.  Compare that with those of the Clinton years where we suffered at least 12 notable terrorist attacks from Muslim extremists, likely associated with al-Qaeda, around the world. 

Simply put, there is no peace with these people in their current form.  They need to be broken down further.  Historically speaking, Neville Chamberlain believed that he could negotiate peace with Hitler.  When you have some time, look up and read his "Peace for our time" speech.  Six months after their "agreement," Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia.  You can't negotiate peace with an enemy that feels emboldened.  You have to break them down, destroy their spirit, kill their leaders and squelch their beliefs.  Then, you can start talking about peace. 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

AWK

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2008, 10:43:33 PM »
Well, I respectfully and vehemently disagree.  Don't fall for the idea that these people maintain any of the same values as us.  They have no respect for human life.  These individuals are willing to strap a bomb to their chest, walk into a crowded shopping mall, and blow themselves up to kill as many "infidels" as they can.  They also don't respect the concept of this "negotiating table" that you speak of.  How many times have they come to peace agreements with Israel, and then turn around to be the first to fire rockets into Israel's cities targeting civilian populations?  Even their religion scoffs at the idea of these agreements.  They see them only as opportunities to re-arm and prepare for their next offensive assault. 

Nobody is suggesting that we "ignore them," and the last time I checked, we're not attempting to "kill them all."  We're breaking their spirit, which is the point of any military action.  Best of all, it's working contrary to what you hear in the evening news.  There have been no terrorist attacks against Americans since September 11th, 2001.  They tried in Syria, but that was foiled by Syrian security forces.  There have been no other embassy bombings, and there have been no attacks against any of our military bases outside of Iraq and Afghanistan.  Compare that with those of the Clinton years where we suffered at least 12 notable terrorist attacks from Muslim extremists, likely associated with al-Qaeda, around the world. 

Simply put, there is no peace with these people in their current form.  They need to be broken down further.  Historically speaking, Neville Chamberlain believed that he could negotiate peace with Hitler.  When you have some time, look up and read his "Peace for our time" speech.  Six months after their "agreement," Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia.  You can't negotiate peace with an enemy that feels emboldened.  You have to break them down, destroy their spirit, kill their leaders and squelch their beliefs.  Then, you can start talking about peace. 
First off, "Breaking spirits" is not the point of any military action.  Military action has one simple point, kill or be killed.  To destroy their entire foundation and leadership.  That may work when fighting a single enemy, lets say a country such as Germany.  However, attempting to destroy an entire religion has never and will never work.  Do you honestly believe there is a way to "squelch" the entire Islamic religion? I know the argument is, "Well, these arent a representative of the entire Muslim Nation, they are extremists."  That may be true to an extent, but I promise you that an attempt at squashing their beliefs and trying to destroy their spirit will only result in more "moderate" Muslims joining their cause.  Taking care of the organizations such as Al Queda is imparative, but groups such as the Palestenian's cannot just be "squashed."   Don't forget that they were forced out of their homes and off of their land when other countries, namely U.S. and Britain, deided to simply give their land to the new Jewish nation.  I am not saying it was right or wrong, I am just pointing out the fact that there is a basis for their uncivil disagreement.
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GarMan

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2008, 06:20:31 PM »
First off, "Breaking spirits" is not the point of any military action.  Military action has one simple point, kill or be killed.  To destroy their entire foundation and leadership.  That may work when fighting a single enemy, lets say a country such as Germany.  However, attempting to destroy an entire religion has never and will never work.  Do you honestly believe there is a way to "squelch" the entire Islamic religion? I know the argument is, "Well, these arent a representative of the entire Muslim Nation, they are extremists."  That may be true to an extent, but I promise you that an attempt at squashing their beliefs and trying to destroy their spirit will only result in more "moderate" Muslims joining their cause.  Taking care of the organizations such as Al Queda is imparative, but groups such as the Palestenian's cannot just be "squashed."   Don't forget that they were forced out of their homes and off of their land when other countries, namely U.S. and Britain, deided to simply give their land to the new Jewish nation.  I am not saying it was right or wrong, I am just pointing out the fact that there is a basis for their uncivil disagreement.

Well unfortunately, you're completely wrong about military action.  While the military's job is to kill people and break things, the use of the military by any power is to break the resolve or spirit of the people you're fighting.  For instance, our goal was not to kill every Japanese person during WWII.  We only needed to break their will to a level where they were willing to surrender and agree to a peaceful resolution.  Similar is true of the Germans during WWI and WWII.  The same is true of every military conflict.  Consider the formation of the United States.  During our battle for independence, we only needed to break the resolve of the King of England regarding the control of a New World Colony.  At the time, Great Britain was far stronger than us, but the battle would prove to be too costly for England to continue sending ships and soldiers. 

Regarding the Muslims, we'll never be successful trying to "kill them all" or "to destroy an entire religion."  That's not the point of our actions in Afghanistan or Iraq.  Stop buying into that silly Liberal argument.  We're trying to break the resolve of the extremists who believe that it's acceptable to strap a bomb to their chest, walk into a crowded shopping center, and blow themselves up to kill as many women and children of the civilian population as they can.  We're not going to squelch an entire religion, and we'll likely never completely destroy their spirit.  However, continued efforts to break them down will eventually enable us to assist in the evolution of their extremist views to something less extreme or less violent and negotiate a peaceful coexistence.  Keep in mind that we have many of these "moderate" Muslims in the United States.  I don't see any of them walking into crowded shopping malls with bombs or guns intent on killing Christians, Jews or other non-Muslims. 

The Palestinian issue is a mess, but it doesn't warrant or come close to justifying the type of uncivilized behavior that we see from these animals.  Attacking military targets is one thing, but shooting missiles into crowded civilian areas is unconscionable.  When they commit such actions, they are proving to be unworthy of any negotiations or bargaining.  Furthermore, the “Palestinians” were not actually “forced out of their homes” by the US and Britain to create Israel.  After Israel was formed, there was a war sparked by the surrounding Arab countries that later resulted in peace agreements giving Israel greater control over the Palestinian region.  The United Nations may have been instrumental in that, but the resolve of the new Israeli spirit was far greater than the neighboring Arab nations expected. 

Finally, are you really a bleeding-heart pansy-assed Liberal, or are you just fucking with me? 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Saniflush

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2008, 08:49:30 AM »
 :popcorn:
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2008, 04:46:58 PM »
Well unfortunately, you're completely wrong about military action.  While the military's job is to kill people and break things, the use of the military by any power is to break the resolve or spirit of the people you're fighting.  For instance, our goal was not to kill every Japanese person during WWII.  We only needed to break their will to a level where they were willing to surrender and agree to a peaceful resolution.  Similar is true of the Germans during WWI and WWII.  The same is true of every military conflict.  Consider the formation of the United States.  During our battle for independence, we only needed to break the resolve of the King of England regarding the control of a New World Colony.  At the time, Great Britain was far stronger than us, but the battle would prove to be too costly for England to continue sending ships and soldiers. 

Regarding the Muslims, we'll never be successful trying to "kill them all" or "to destroy an entire religion."  That's not the point of our actions in Afghanistan or Iraq.  Stop buying into that silly Liberal argument.  We're trying to break the resolve of the extremists who believe that it's acceptable to strap a bomb to their chest, walk into a crowded shopping center, and blow themselves up to kill as many women and children of the civilian population as they can.  We're not going to squelch an entire religion, and we'll likely never completely destroy their spirit.  However, continued efforts to break them down will eventually enable us to assist in the evolution of their extremist views to something less extreme or less violent and negotiate a peaceful coexistence.  Keep in mind that we have many of these "moderate" Muslims in the United States.  I don't see any of them walking into crowded shopping malls with bombs or guns intent on killing Christians, Jews or other non-Muslims. 

The Palestinian issue is a mess, but it doesn't warrant or come close to justifying the type of uncivilized behavior that we see from these animals.  Attacking military targets is one thing, but shooting missiles into crowded civilian areas is unconscionable.  When they commit such actions, they are proving to be unworthy of any negotiations or bargaining.  Furthermore, the “Palestinians” were not actually “forced out of their homes” by the US and Britain to create Israel.  After Israel was formed, there was a war sparked by the surrounding Arab countries that later resulted in peace agreements giving Israel greater control over the Palestinian region.  The United Nations may have been instrumental in that, but the resolve of the new Israeli spirit was far greater than the neighboring Arab nations expected. 

Finally, are you really a bleeding-heart pansy-assed Liberal, or are you just fucking with me? 

I am pretty sure that when people walk in with guns and tell you to leave your home, you wouldn't be very happy either.  Israel was subjectively able to draw their own borders...You act as if if was their land in the first place and they just took it back...thats not true at all.  They forced the Palestininans out of their homes.  Look up the British mandate of Palestine. 

I was just wondering, Are you really a water-head drool on yourself conservative, or just retarded? :poke:
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GarMan

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2008, 09:37:08 PM »
I am pretty sure that when people walk in with guns and tell you to leave your home, you wouldn't be very happy either.  Israel was subjectively able to draw their own borders...You act as if if was their land in the first place and they just took it back...thats not true at all.  They forced the Palestininans out of their homes.  Look up the British mandate of Palestine. 

I was just wondering, Are you really a water-head drool on yourself conservative, or just retarded? :poke:

They didn't exactly "draw their own borders" as you put it.  The borders were negotiated with the neighboring Arab nations in their respective peace agreements.  Furthermore, the last time I checked, a good bit of that land had been renegotiated and given back. 

As far as the British Mandate of Palestine goes, British soldiers weren't driving the "Palestininans" out of their homes, and the "Palestininans" weren't exactly a great organized nation.  The area was essentially controlled by the British, and a solution had to be found for the post-WWII problem.  "They're the Jews!  They're going to want more..." 

You and I do seem to agree on one thing.  Personally, I too don't believe that the current nation of Israel should have ever been created.  I think it was a mistake for the UN to take such an action, but at the time, it was strongly supported by England.  They had control of the territory, and the "Palestininans" were essentially a collection of disorganized tribes.  It was England who made the investments in the territory by building up the infrastructure and organizing a local government.  The region also had a large and growing Jewish population that was well organized and educated.  In addition, the Jewish refugees from WWII weren't exactly going to be welcomed back to their countries of origin. 

Finally, if you and Jimmy actually believe that peaceful coexistence can be negotiated with any person willing to strap a bomb to their chest, walk into a crowded civilian area and blow themselves up, let me know.  I'll be more than willing to purchase a ticket for you and just about anyone else who wants to try.   :rofl:
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

AWK

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Re: Our Beloved Former President Carter...
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2008, 10:34:23 PM »
They didn't exactly "draw their own borders" as you put it.  The borders were negotiated with the neighboring Arab nations in their respective peace agreements.  Furthermore, the last time I checked, a good bit of that land had been renegotiated and given back. 

As far as the British Mandate of Palestine goes, British soldiers weren't driving the "Palestininans" out of their homes, and the "Palestininans" weren't exactly a great organized nation.  The area was essentially controlled by the British, and a solution had to be found for the post-WWII problem.  "They're the Jews!  They're going to want more..." 

You and I do seem to agree on one thing.  Personally, I too don't believe that the current nation of Israel should have ever been created.  I think it was a mistake for the UN to take such an action, but at the time, it was strongly supported by England.  They had control of the territory, and the "Palestininans" were essentially a collection of disorganized tribes.  It was England who made the investments in the territory by building up the infrastructure and organizing a local government.  The region also had a large and growing Jewish population that was well organized and educated.  In addition, the Jewish refugees from WWII weren't exactly going to be welcomed back to their countries of origin. 

Finally, if you and Jimmy actually believe that peaceful coexistence can be negotiated with any person willing to strap a bomb to their chest, walk into a crowded civilian area and blow themselves up, let me know.  I'll be more than willing to purchase a ticket for you and just about anyone else who wants to try.   :rofl:
I agree with you that it will never happen unless somethings drastically change, i.e. stop blowing yourself up and killing innocent civilians.  I am just hypothetically saying it wouldn't be a bad idea eventually.  IF, they change.  However, it doesn't seem like that will happen in the next 43,454 years. 
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Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall said, "Guys don't mind hitting Michael Vick in the open field, but when you see Cam, you have to think about how you're going to tackle him. He's like a big tight end coming at you."