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Donald Trump for President?

djsimp

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2011, 09:29:14 AM »
It wouldn't be worse than what is up there now. Just saying.

This is hitting an all time low. Between those two, they could really fuck a country up.
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GH2001

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2011, 09:36:26 AM »
That's the other thing about the oil market.  Even if America were to effectively reduce its reliance on Middle Eastern oil to the point that we were importing none from the Middle East in any form or fashion, the oil market is global.  Any potential unrest or effects to the supply in the Middle East will cause spectators to predict less of a supply, thereby affecting all prices regardless of the source, mostly due to the massive amounts of oil that the Middle East supplies to other countries within the market.  Like GarMan said, ultimately we're going to have to move away from all types of foreign oil reliance (or reliance upon oil in general) in order to prevent this type of instability.

But yeah, back to the topic...Trump >>>>>> Obama.  Although I'd probably prefer to see Warren Buffett if we're going to propose financial gurus for president.
This is true.
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2011, 10:49:01 AM »
90% of all the shrimp we consume in the U.S. come from Asian waters.
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Lurking Tiger

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #43 on: April 18, 2011, 11:23:28 AM »
But yeah, back to the topic...Trump >>>>>> Obama.  Although I'd probably prefer to see Warren Buffett if we're going to propose financial gurus for president.

Trump is not a financial guru. He is a marketing guru. And that means Trump = Obama.
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Saniflush

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2011, 11:28:38 AM »
Trump is not a financial guru. He is a marketing guru. And that means Trump = Obama.

Ding, Ding, Ding
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

CCTAU

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2011, 11:36:09 AM »
Trump is not a financial guru. He is a marketing guru. And that means Trump = Obama.

If we can just declare bankruptcy and start over, Trump is our man.
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

GarMan

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #46 on: April 18, 2011, 11:52:45 AM »
If you're talking about the production of oil, then the proven oil reserves do...

Again, I agree with you that it's not as if we're receiving a significant portion of our oil from the Middle East...

Playing the odds...  I see what you're attempting to say, but as you've admitted, a significant amount of pass-through oil imports is unlikely to tip the scale here. 

But I do have to completely disagree with you about the production of oil...it's clearly made from infant orphans.

That's just a fairy tale...  Everybody knows the infant orphans are used to make whiskey. 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Vandy Vol

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2011, 12:02:17 PM »
Trump is not a financial guru. He is a marketing guru. And that means Trump = Obama.

If you're speaking in terms of building a traditional portfolio, then yes, Trump is not a financial guru in that sense.  Buffett's career may be more attuned to the widely accepted idea of a financial guru, but ultimately he was investing in something (shares of stock) just as Trump invested in something (real estate).  Sure, Trump's line of work involving real estate has more of a marketing component to it, but ultimately he used his abilities to become a millionaire, and then subsequently to rebuild his business by coming out of billions of dollars of debt.  He used his marketing prowess to make money, which, in my book, makes him a financial guru.  Maybe "successful business man" would have been a better term?  Semantics, I suppose.
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Vandy Vol

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2011, 12:15:46 PM »
Playing the odds...  I see what you're attempting to say, but as you've admitted, a significant amount of pass-through oil imports is unlikely to tip the scale here.

Probably.  It would be damn near difficult to prove or disprove that with certainty, as it would involve not only determining which countries import oil from where, but also an in-depth review of various trade documentation (to which we will never have access) to determine whether Middle Eastern oil was actually exported after being imported.  Many of these countries produce their own oil, so the question would be whether they are exporting their own oil, or exporting oil which they have previously imported.

Imported crude oil is often refined and then exported as a finished product of some sort, usually refined petroleum.  But again, how much of that is refined from non-Middle Eastern crude oil?  I don't think we're in a position to know that without access to the aforementioned trade documentation.

But, yes, by playing the odds, I'm assuming that there must be a significant portion of Middle Eastern oil indirectly imported to many countries, even if those countries aren't America.  It would be highly unlikely that Middle Eastern oil isn't being indirectly imported to some degree, given the fact that nearly 40% of all oil produced daily is from the Middle East, and an even larger percentage of proven reserves in the world exist in the Middle East.  And with the United States importing 25% of the total world's traded oil, I would assume that some percentage (even though it may or may not be a small percentage) of the oil that we import comes indirectly from the Middle East.  Again, I think that number can not be quantified without access to some very complex government trade documentation, but I do think that the number exists.

That's just a fairy tale...  Everybody knows the infant orphans are used to make whiskey.

Oh...no wonder whiskey tastes like heaven.
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GH2001

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2011, 12:25:15 PM »
If you're speaking in terms of building a traditional portfolio, then yes, Trump is not a financial guru in that sense.  Buffett's career may be more attuned to the widely accepted idea of a financial guru, but ultimately he was investing in something (shares of stock) just as Trump invested in something (real estate).  Sure, Trump's line of work involving real estate has more of a marketing component to it, but ultimately he used his abilities to become a millionaire, and then subsequently to rebuild his business by coming out of billions of dollars of debt.  He used his marketing prowess to make money, which, in my book, makes him a financial guru.  Maybe "successful business man" would have been a better term?  Semantics, I suppose.

You do make an interesting point though. No doubt, the guy has a financial mind.

One has to remember that Trump has been in real estate. Which is extremely volatile. He plays the market well and does as well as one can do in that line of business. Especially in Nevada. Not sure how Steve Wynn has been able to do as well as he has in LV the last 10 years.
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WDE

Vandy Vol

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2011, 12:40:17 PM »
You do make an interesting point though. No doubt, the guy has a financial mind.

One has to remember that Trump has been in real estate. Which is extremely volatile. He plays the market well and does as well as one can do in that line of business. Especially in Nevada. Not sure how Steve Wynn has been able to do as well as he has in LV the last 10 years.

People give Trump a lot of flack about declaring bankruptcy, but as you said, the real estate market is extremely volatile.  Add onto that the fact that there was a (short-lived) recession in the early 1990's (Trump's first bankruptcy was in 1991), and I think it's not quite as big of a deal as people make it.  Especially when you look at the fact that he managed to bounce back.  It wasn't as if he was operating on a flawed financial scheme which would only support him for a limited time before the bubble would burst; he just hit some hard times and then bounced back doing exactly what he had done before.

But, in all honesty, I'm actually making myself a little nauseous by defending Trump.  He's definitely not an ideal candidate for president.  It's simply that Trump ≥ Obama.
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GarMan

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2011, 01:12:39 PM »
But, yes, by playing the odds, I'm assuming that there must be a significant portion of Middle Eastern oil indirectly imported to many countries, even if those countries aren't America.  It would be highly unlikely that Middle Eastern oil isn't being indirectly imported to some degree, given the fact that nearly 40% of all oil produced daily is from the Middle East, and an even larger percentage of proven reserves in the world exist in the Middle East.  And with the United States importing 25% of the total world's traded oil, I would assume that some percentage (even though it may or may not be a small percentage) of the oil that we import comes indirectly from the Middle East.  Again, I think that number can not be quantified without access to some very complex government trade documentation, but I do think that the number exists. 

The "proven oil reserves" position is of no consequence.  These "proven oil reserves" are not exactly marketable commodities and have no value in this discussion.  They don't really impact trade until they are physically extracted.  Dems bring this stuff up all of the time, but it's just a diversionary tactic.  It's production that matters, along with the amounts that are traded between countries.  The US could easily produce 2-3 times what we produce today, but our own gubme't is handicapping us. 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Vandy Vol

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2011, 02:07:47 PM »
The "proven oil reserves" position is of no consequence.  These "proven oil reserves" are not exactly marketable commodities and have no value in this discussion.  They don't really impact trade until they are physically extracted.  Dems bring this stuff up all of the time, but it's just a diversionary tactic.  It's production that matters, along with the amounts that are traded between countries.  The US could easily produce 2-3 times what we produce today, but our own gubme't is handicapping us.

The existence of proven oil reserves indicate what a country could produce, absent various factors that affect production.  Generally speaking, the more proven oil reserves that are owned by a country, the more oil that country will produce, which explains why 40% of the oil extracted/produced comes from Middle Eastern countries.  As mentioned, there are a variety of factors that can affect this general premise, such as the Iraq war, but typically speaking, if a region has more proven oil reserves, they're going to produce and export more oil.

Even if this general idea of more supply = more production is still rejected as tenuous, the production/extraction figures directly show that the Middle East produces more oil than any other region.  Not only do they simply produce/extract more oil than any other region, but they export more oil than any other region.  That wouldn't be possible if they didn't sit on a massive amount of proven oil reserves like they do.

So yes, the mere existence of proven oil reserves doesn't directly prove that more oil is produced, but it is a logical assumption that more oil would be produced in countries with more proven oil reserves; this assumption is supported by the figures which do directly show the amount of oil produced and exported from Middle Eastern countries to be greater than other regions, which also happen to sit on fewer proven oil reserves.

However, I would have to disagree with you in regard to one thing:  the marketability of proven oil reserves as a commodity.  The commodities market deals with future interests; contracts are made today based upon predictions of the existence of extracted oil in the future, as well as other predictions involving demand, politics, war, and numerous other factors.  This means that if the supply (number and size of proven oil reserves) is reported as getting smaller, then the price of oil cited in these futures contracts will increase; the proven oil reserves do affect the commodities trade even before being extracted.  Because the storage costs of maintaining oil is too high to simply perform a massive extraction and stockpile what may be needed in the future, these contracts are based on commodities that have not yet been extracted.  As a result, proven oil reserves are marketable commodities due to the fact that they are traded in the futures market, as most commodities are.
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GH2001

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #53 on: April 18, 2011, 02:26:51 PM »
People give Trump a lot of flack about declaring bankruptcy, but as you said, the real estate market is extremely volatile.  Add onto that the fact that there was a (short-lived) recession in the early 1990's (Trump's first bankruptcy was in 1991), and I think it's not quite as big of a deal as people make it.  Especially when you look at the fact that he managed to bounce back.  It wasn't as if he was operating on a flawed financial scheme which would only support him for a limited time before the bubble would burst; he just hit some hard times and then bounced back doing exactly what he had done before.

But, in all honesty, I'm actually making myself a little nauseous by defending Trump.  He's definitely not an ideal candidate for president.  It's simply that Trump ≥ Obama.

I'm in the same boat as you bolded above. I respect Trump a lot. Not sure if I want him to be my President though. Who knows - he could do a bang up job. But I wouldn't feel good about the prospects. At this point, he is better than Obama like you said. And thats why its easier to defend him. He is also making some valid points about Obama's lacking of good decision making.
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WDE

AWK

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #54 on: April 18, 2011, 06:09:46 PM »
Rofl my fucking copters...

How not to win the Presidency example #1...

Quote
Trump says he has good relationship with 'the blacks'

Washington (CNN) - As he continues to mull a presidential bid, or say he is mulling a presidential bid, business mogul Donald Trump is lamenting the fact President Obama appears to have locked up the black vote.

"I have a great relationship with the blacks," Trump told Albany's Talk Radio 1300 Thursday. "I've always had a great relationship with the blacks."

But Trump says it's a "very sad thing" such a high percentage of that demographic supports President Obama, for reasons, he believes, that are largely influenced by race. The discussion was spawned by a recent poll of New York voters that found 95 percent of black voters there approve of the president's job performance. The same poll found that the president's overall approval rating in New York stands at 54 percent.

"Look at Hillary Clinton," the reality television star continued in reference to the 2008 Democratic presidential primary race. "Hillary Clinton did so much for the black population, so much and got very few votes."

"Look, I tell it like it is," he added. "Then you hear a political reporter go on and say, 'It had nothing to do with race.' But how come she got such a tiny piece of the vote. It's a very sad thing."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/14/trump-says-he-has-good-relationship-with-the-blacks/?iref=obinsite
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GarMan

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #55 on: April 18, 2011, 07:26:23 PM »
The existence of proven oil reserves indicate what a country could produce, absent various factors that affect production...

Even if this general idea of more supply = more production is still rejected as tenuous, the production/extraction figures directly show that the Middle East produces more oil than any other region...

So yes, the mere existence of proven oil reserves doesn't directly prove that more oil is produced, but it is a logical assumption that more oil would be produced in countries with more proven oil reserves; this assumption is supported by the figures which do directly show the amount of oil produced and exported from Middle Eastern countries to be greater than other regions, which also happen to sit on fewer proven oil reserves.

I honestly don't understand how you seem so confident making this leap of fate.  Yes, they have more "proven oil reserves", but US oil exploration is also tightly regulated.  We don't exactly know what we have in the Gulf, ANWR, or along the eastern seaboard, so making your stretch is only possible as long as the Dems keep our oil industry handicapped, essentially manipulating the known supply.  Again, they're artificially inflating energy prices by over-regulating our own oil industry.  They don't have this in the Middle East as oil is their primary industry with exploration and production supported by their leaders. 

However, I would have to disagree with you in regard to one thing:  the marketability of proven oil reserves as a commodity.  The commodities market deals with future interests; contracts are made today based upon predictions of the existence of extracted oil in the future, as well as other predictions involving demand, politics, war, and numerous other factors.  This means that if the supply (number and size of proven oil reserves) is reported as getting smaller, then the price of oil cited in these futures contracts will increase; the proven oil reserves do affect the commodities trade even before being extracted.  Because the storage costs of maintaining oil is too high to simply perform a massive extraction and stockpile what may be needed in the future, these contracts are based on commodities that have not yet been extracted.  As a result, proven oil reserves are marketable commodities due to the fact that they are traded in the futures market, as most commodities are.

Sort of...  I see what you're saying, but we're nowhere near scraping the bottom of the "barrel" when it comes to the supply available in these "proven oil reserves".  Then, there's South Dakota, Norway, etc., etc...  The known supply is far greater than the current production run rates over decades, if not centuries.  I see how "supply" directly impacts futures trading of cows, corn, wheat and pork bellies, but it seems to be a bit of a stretch with oil.  Production capability would seem to be a greater influence on the futures markets, and known supplies depleting to a level that would significantly impact future price is likely less of a concern right now.  Of course, I'm looking at the overall picture and not considering the micro-issues associated with a particular region, company and/or single reserve. 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Vandy Vol

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2011, 05:29:19 PM »
I honestly don't understand how you seem so confident making this leap of fate.  Yes, they have more "proven oil reserves", but US oil exploration is also tightly regulated.  We don't exactly know what we have in the Gulf, ANWR, or along the eastern seaboard, so making your stretch is only possible as long as the Dems keep our oil industry handicapped, essentially manipulating the known supply.  Again, they're artificially inflating energy prices by over-regulating our own oil industry.  They don't have this in the Middle East as oil is their primary industry with exploration and production supported by their leaders.

It's not really a stretch.  Yes, America may be sitting on more oil, but until you've found it, it can't be considered a proven oil reserve.  Countries with more proven oil reserves are going to naturally export more oil than those with fewer proven oil reserves, regardless of the reason why there are fewer proven oil reserves in certain countries.  You may be sitting on it, but until you find it, you can't export it.  On the other hand, if you're sitting on it and you've found it in abundance, then it's a pretty safe assumption that you will export oil in relative proportion to the amount that you have readily available in the proven oil reserves.

Sort of...  I see what you're saying, but we're nowhere near scraping the bottom of the "barrel" when it comes to the supply available in these "proven oil reserves".  Then, there's South Dakota, Norway, etc., etc...  The known supply is far greater than the current production run rates over decades, if not centuries.  I see how "supply" directly impacts futures trading of cows, corn, wheat and pork bellies, but it seems to be a bit of a stretch with oil.  Production capability would seem to be a greater influence on the futures markets, and known supplies depleting to a level that would significantly impact future price is likely less of a concern right now.  Of course, I'm looking at the overall picture and not considering the micro-issues associated with a particular region, company and/or single reserve.

Definitely, the proven oil reserves that we have found so far will last us quite some time, and there are even other reserves that have not yet been exploited.  However, various governments (and probably OPEC) keep estimates of whether oil reserves are decreasing or increasing.  There have been a number of years when fossil fuel oil reserves have "decreased," according to the "experts."  This can cause the price of oil to increase.  Remember from 1990 - 1999, gas consistently hovered at around 99 cents a gallon?  In mid to late 1999, the price spiked to around $1.10 and then aggressively increased from there, maintaining an average of about $1.40 for 2000-2003'ish before spiking again due to the Iraq war, Hurricane Katrina, etc.

This was largely due to the alleged "energy crisis" that was referred to in reports from the United States Department of Energy.  Some of these reports went so far as to claim that oil reserves were decreasing in size, but most of the reports focused on a more quantifiable and believable stance:  the rate at which we are finding new oil reserves is decreasing so that we will not be able to sustain our rate of oil consumption, which continued to grow each year.  The last source I checked indicated that, based upon our current consumption rate and knowledge of existing oil reserves, we would be out of oil within 47 years if no additional reserves were to be found.

Now, as you said, there are a variety of oil reserves that have yet to be discovered, but with a futures market that revolves around speculation, these reports on the status of proven oil reserves do affect prices, even if those reports don't necessarily indicate that we're close to scraping the bottom of the barrel yet.  Afterall, it's a futures market, so the speculators are more worried about instability in the long run than they are stability in the present.
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Lurking Tiger

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2011, 06:30:33 PM »
Futures markets aren't as connected to reality as most people think. They are mainly used to "gamble" on the market or to protect a short position. Most futures contracts are never paid off in the traditional sense of the word. Holders normally buy an offsetting position to close their obligation. Makes this market even more of a self fulfilling prophesy than the equity or bond markets.

And fuck Donald Trump, and the horse that road in on him.
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AUTiger1

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2011, 11:11:38 PM »
Back to the topic for a minute.......so what you are saying is that Trump is actually being taken serious?
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Saniflush

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Re: Donald Trump for President?
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2011, 07:19:58 AM »
Back to the topic for a minute.......so what you are saying is that Trump is actually being taken serious?

I understood him to say that a horse fucked him.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."