NFL for 2011?

[djsimp]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=lc-nfluncertainty031111

Arrogance unnecessarily jeopardizes ’11 season
By Les Carpenter, Yahoo! Sports
 
http://nfl.cpa.delvenetworks.com/delve/player/carousel/embed_code.html?channelId=de89a8aeb3e422bac4eb48567f10ebd0&mediaId=affad511152940e29d029457c2729887

The sad thing about the NFL Players Association’s decertification and the courtroom tempests that are sure to follow is there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the most lucrative sports league in the world.

Sure, NFL players don’t have guaranteed contracts, and the league and union have never done enough to provide for its former stars who took beatings on the field as the sport’s popularity blossomed. But these are not issues at the heart of the dispute between the NFL and the players’ union. The players have long ceded the hammer to the league on contract issues with their refusals to stick together on strikes. As one former player rep once told me 10 years ago: “I’ve got a family. If we had a strike I would seriously consider crossing [the picket line].”

The tradeoff was a general period of peace in which the bonuses paid to players steadily rose and the owners got richer too with sweetheart stadium deals and television contracts too fantastic to be true. Aside from the possible addition of a rookie wage scale that all of America probably believes should be implemented, there is little else in the negotiations that changes the way the NFL is run. Regardless of what comes out of court rulings in the next few months, the players will still get big bonuses without guaranteed contracts and the owners will continue to get rich.

In the end, the only reason to potentially blow up the season was hubris. Once more, the arrogance of the NFL’s owners rose with their refusal to completely open their books. And the union, which has always operated more like a big business than a benevolent representative of the players’ interests, walked away in a snit.

It is for this we might not have football this year.

Aside from the player safety issue surrounding the 18-game season discussion, there is no long-term structural good that was going to come from these labor negotiations. The primary issue was always how two parties could split $1 billion in particular of the overall $9 billion pie. And while $1 billion is an awful lot of money, the math should not have been difficult in a league where so many people are getting rich.

What’s going on in the NFL is nothing like what happened six years ago in the NHL where the union fought the creation of a salary cap or in Major League Baseball’s many strikes where the union repeatedly showed its resolve. In a few months the NBA will embark upon a labor dispute that will challenge the framework of the entire league. As one team executive recently said: “[NBA commissioner] David Stern is going to break the players and then when he’s broken them he’s going to break them some more.”

The NFL does not face such issues. The union long ago lost the war when it agreed to a hard salary cap – anything it does now is about proving to the players that it can keep delivering a few more dollars each season. And commissioner Roger Goodell has the respect of his owners, so he doesn’t need to prove himself the way Stern must to his uneasy constituency.

Again and again NFL executives have said in the past few months they would be shocked if a deal didn’t get done given the fact that the NFL is a league in which everyone is doing well financially. But in recent weeks it became clear that old turf was being protected for seemingly no good reason. After a time it appeared the NFLPA’s executive director DeMaurice Smith had made such a deal about seeing the owners’ financial information that anything which didn’t include a full combing of every team’s books would be a humiliating defeat for him.

Of course it is clear to see why the NFLPA would want to examine the teams’ records. As with all professional sports operations, there is certain to be decent cash flow to even the poorest of clubs and examples of the nepotism that is always so rife in such organizations. The release of several baseball teams’ books to the website Deadspin was devastating in its accounting of opulence even as those teams cried poverty.


 
 
Still, there is little for NFL teams to lose in opening their records. A few years ago the owner of one of the league’s more financially-challenged teams told me “teams don’t generate that much revenue from year-to-year, you make your money when you sell your franchise.”

The owner begged his name not be used for the obvious reason of angering his brethren, but his point was clear: In the lucrative NFL, with its hard salary cap, every team – regardless of relative wealth – could be sold for something close to $1 billion (higher revenue-generating teams like the Redskins and Eagles for even more). And with movements looming at the end of this labor deal to get a team in Los Angeles and expand the game’s exposure internationally, the television deals are only going to get bigger and franchise values are only going to rise.

Ultimately, the harm of letting the union see each team’s books is smaller than the nuclear option everyone now faces, with the months of suits and counter suits and the threat of a work stoppage.

But that was never the issue here. They’re blowing everything up at a time when there’s still so much money to be made.

What else could it be?

Hubris.

And the season sits in jeopardy.

[RWS]

I kind of agree with the players on the matter of financial transparency. They're the ones out there on the field making the money. They're out there destroying their bodies for somebody else. I don't see why they shouldn't be able to see what they're doing it for.

[Kaos]

I kind of agree with the players on the matter of financial transparency. They're the ones out there on the field making the money. They're out there destroying their bodies for somebody else. I don't see why they shouldn't be able to see what they're doing it for.

Wrong.  Flat out wrong. 

As a business owner my employees have no right to see the books.  I hired you.  Do your job for the amount I'm willing to pay you or go fuck yourself. 

If they were making minimum wage?  Yeah.  You'd have a point. 

If they don't want to "destroy their bodies" for the money I'm willing to pay them?  Perhaps they should use their college degrees to get a real job. 

[DnATL]

If they were making minimum wage?  Yeah.  You'd have a point. 

Definitely not even then, but I agree fully with everything else.

[djsimp]

I agree, the boss doesn't have to open up the books for me. I mean, I have never worked and been in the union but it seems to me that some normalcy has been lost here. If I was to walk into my bosses office asking to look at financial records, I expect I would receive the middle finger salute on my way out the door. I would certainly assume that this is the common across the nation.

What we have is a whole lot of pride from both sides. The players makes millions and millions of dollars, so do the owners. If whether or not the union sees the "books" is the ball breaker in this, I'd say thats fucking retarded. In my opinion they're just telling the fans of the game , "Fuck you".

[RWS]

Wrong.  Flat out wrong. 

As a business owner my employees have no right to see the books.  I hired you.  Do your job for the amount I'm willing to pay you or go fuck yourself. 

If they were making minimum wage?  Yeah.  You'd have a point. 

If they don't want to "destroy their bodies" for the money I'm willing to pay them?  Perhaps they should use their college degrees to get a real job.

The NFL is a totally different situation from what you're describing. It's not a normal "Ok, we're hiring for this position for this much an hour" type of job. Player salaries are negotiated. Every wide receiver doesn't make the same money. Everybody doesn't get the same raises. A player leaving a team has a direct impact on the financials of the franchise. For example, say the Saints sell $1 million worth of Drew Brees jersies in a year. He decides to bolt when free agency rolls around, and that's a direct line from him to the Saints' bank account. Nobody is buying Brees jersies from the Saints anymore. The team gets shittier because Brees is gone. Ticket sales go down. Fan support dwindles. Merchandise sales go down. It's a domino effect. Players are essentially commodities.

[jmar]

The NFL is a totally different situation from what you're describing. It's not a normal "Ok, we're hiring for this position for this much an hour" type of job. Player salaries are negotiated. Every wide receiver doesn't make the same money. Everybody doesn't get the same raises. A player leaving a team has a direct impact on the financials of the franchise. For example, say the Saints sell $1 million worth of Drew Brees jersies in a year. He decides to bolt when free agency rolls around, and that's a direct line from him to the Saints' bank account. Nobody is buying Brees jersies from the Saints anymore. The team gets shittier because Brees is gone. Ticket sales go down. Fan support dwindles. Merchandise sales go down. It's a domino effect. Players are essentially commodities.

I think LeBron James stands out to me as an example of a professional player that was closest to actual ownership as the face of the Cavaliers. Regardless of that outcome, I doubt he even knew how much Dan Gilbert made as principal owner but I do agree that the players are commodities, entertainers and yes some even reach the level of icon.

[RWS]

I think LeBron James stands out to me as an example of a professional player that was closest to actual ownership as the face of the Cavaliers. Regardless of that outcome, I doubt he even knew how much Dan Gilbert made as principal owner but I do agree that the players are commodities, entertainers and yes some even reach the level of icon.

I guess my point is, if you're using my name, face, skillset, etc to make a shit-ton of cash, I would like to know how much. To compare the NFL and it's players to some private sector businesses and their employees is apples and oranges. Not even the same ballpark.

[jmar]

I guess my point is, if you're using my name, face, skillset, etc to make a shit-ton of cash, I would like to know how much. To compare the NFL and it's players to some private sector businesses and their employees is apples and oranges. Not even the same ballpark.

I agree, there is no comparing the two on the same level.

[Kaos]

The NFL is a totally different situation from what you're describing. It's not a normal "Ok, we're hiring for this position for this much an hour" type of job. Player salaries are negotiated. Every wide receiver doesn't make the same money. Everybody doesn't get the same raises. A player leaving a team has a direct impact on the financials of the franchise. For example, say the Saints sell $1 million worth of Drew Brees jersies in a year. He decides to bolt when free agency rolls around, and that's a direct line from him to the Saints' bank account. Nobody is buying Brees jersies from the Saints anymore. The team gets shittier because Brees is gone. Ticket sales go down. Fan support dwindles. Merchandise sales go down. It's a domino effect. Players are essentially commodities.

Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? 

None of my sales people are paid the same.  None of my support staff is paid the same.  Each negotiates their own salary. Each is paid what they are worth and have incentive bonuses so they can make more. They don't get the same raises.   

If my best sales person leaves and goes to another company, the customers I had that he sold may follow him.  That's a direct line.  I lose money, the company spends less, bonuses are smaller.  I might have to sell a company car or something.  The company gets shittier if they are gone until I hire somebody else and get them up to speed and selling. 

Their job is to sell.  If they sell well, they make more.  It's none of their motherfucking business how much I make off the sale.  I use their name, their reputation, their skill and their presentation to make cash for me.  If they don't like it, McDonalds is always hiring.  Or they can jump their ass out there and put their family on the line and start their own.  Good fucking luck with that. 
It's business.  That's the way it works. 

It's not apples and oranges, it's apples and fucking apples.  It is BUSINESS  Plain and fucking simple.  It's no different than any other.   FUCK an employee needing to know what an owner makes.  None of their sonofabitching business.  I took the risk when I started the business.  I had the nuts to do it, I had the faith,  I had the resources.  They chose to work for me.  They're hardly mistreated and if they don't care for the way it's run?  Well fuck them and their mother. 

[GH2001]

The NFL is a totally different situation from what you're describing. It's not a normal "Ok, we're hiring for this position for this much an hour" type of job. Player salaries are negotiated. Every wide receiver doesn't make the same money. Everybody doesn't get the same raises. A player leaving a team has a direct impact on the financials of the franchise. For example, say the Saints sell $1 million worth of Drew Brees jersies in a year. He decides to bolt when free agency rolls around, and that's a direct line from him to the Saints' bank account. Nobody is buying Brees jersies from the Saints anymore. The team gets shittier because Brees is gone. Ticket sales go down. Fan support dwindles. Merchandise sales go down. It's a domino effect. Players are essentially commodities.

See, this is the problem (like in Wisconsin) when UNIONS get involved, thus watering down a true free market system.

[RWS]

Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? 

None of my sales people are paid the same.  None of my support staff is paid the same.  Each negotiates their own salary. Each is paid what they are worth and have incentive bonuses so they can make more. They don't get the same raises.   

If my best sales person leaves and goes to another company, the customers I had that he sold may follow him.  That's a direct line.  I lose money, the company spends less, bonuses are smaller.  I might have to sell a company car or something.  The company gets shittier if they are gone until I hire somebody else and get them up to speed and selling. 

Their job is to sell.  If they sell well, they make more.  It's none of their motherfucking business how much I make off the sale.  I use their name, their reputation, their skill and their presentation to make cash for me.  If they don't like it, McDonalds is always hiring.  Or they can jump their ass out there and put their family on the line and start their own.  Good fucking luck with that. 
It's business.  That's the way it works. 

It's not apples and oranges, it's apples and fucking apples.  It is BUSINESS  Plain and fucking simple.  It's no different than any other.   FUCK an employee needing to know what an owner makes.  None of their sonofabitching business.  I took the risk when I started the business.  I had the nuts to do it, I had the faith,  I had the resources.  They chose to work for me.  They're hardly mistreated and if they don't care for the way it's run?  Well fuck them and their mother.

Only problem is, your employees are selling the company's product. In the NFL, the players ARE the product. The owners are the salesmen. If you're going to open a business, you have to have a product.

[djsimp]

I think both a failed to take in consideration of who they are selling to. With on of the biggest money making markets in the world and plenty of cash to go around, you would think they could work something out. Sorry if I don't have empathy for either sides of this. Its the fans that lose out in the end. This is one reason why I like CFB so much more.

[JR4AU]

Yes, the situation is different from the normal employee/employer relationship.  As RWS said, the employees are also the product, or an integral part of it.  As a group they hold more power than normal employees in other businesses, and they hold this power whether they are a union or not.  There is no other NFL.  The players can't go to a competing league, and the NFL can't simply replace them.   Each, as a whole, is a one of a kind entity that depends on the other for it's very existence. 

OTOH, the players are not "entitled" to anything.  And, the league's existence  helps a great number earn far more than they ever could any other way. 

So...kinda lost my train of thought...

Sux when they can't just get along. 

[Kaos]

Yes, the situation is different from the normal employee/employer relationship.  As RWS said, the employees are also the product, or an integral part of it.  As a group they hold more power than normal employees in other businesses, and they hold this power whether they are a union or not.  There is no other NFL.  The players can't go to a competing league, and the NFL can't simply replace them.   Each, as a whole, is a one of a kind entity that depends on the other for it's very existence. 

OTOH, the players are not "entitled" to anything.  And, the league's existence  helps a great number earn far more than they ever could any other way. 

So...kinda lost my train of thought...

Sux when they can't just get along.

Nope.  Still not. 

NFL can get players.  Might not be as good as the ones they have now.  Might be DII guys or whatever, but they can get players. 

The game might be different, but it could keep going if it really wanted to. 

Just like with my business -- I can get the best sales guys or I can get crappy ones.   The best ones will shine.  The crappy ones won't.   

[JR4AU]

Nope.  Still not. 

NFL can get players.  Might not be as good as the ones they have now.  Might be DII guys or whatever, but they can get players. 

The game might be different, but it could keep going if it really wanted to. 

Just like with my business -- I can get the best sales guys or I can get crappy ones.   The best ones will shine.  The crappy ones won't.

Under your scenario of cutting off the nose to spite the face, you're correct. 

[djsimp]

Question. Does this seriously damgage the NFL for several years or does the fans jump right back on board and the NFL will not miss a beat?

My opinion is that it will hurt them much more than what they probably realize.

[GH2001]

Question. Does this seriously damgage the NFL for several years or does the fans jump right back on board and the NFL will not miss a beat?

My opinion is that it will hurt them much more than what they probably realize.

Oh no, it will hurt them. No doubt.

Fans and ordinary joes who make both sides rich by attending ball games hate nothing more than when ultra rich people bitch about nominal things and pennies.

[JR4AU]

Oh no, it will hurt them. No doubt.

Fans and ordinary joes who make both sides rich by attending ball games hate nothing more than when ultra rich people bitch about nominal things and pennies.

True.  A lot depends on how long this all lasts.  MLB has yet to fully recover from their strike several years back.  They probably won't ever fully regain the fans they lost.

[RWS]

Nope.  Still not. 

NFL can get players.  Might not be as good as the ones they have now.  Might be DII guys or whatever, but they can get players. 

The game might be different, but it could keep going if it really wanted to. 

Just like with my business -- I can get the best sales guys or I can get crappy ones.   The best ones will shine.  The crappy ones won't.

Sure, they can go get new players. But when you go to a Saints game to see Brees, I don't think you're going to buy that ticket just to see Star Jackson. Thus, the previously stated domino effect if a certain player left on free agency.