Could Toomer's Oaks Survive?

[Tiger Wench]

Maybe some good news... fingers crossed.

Could Toomer's oaks survive?
Posted on: February 26, 2011 3:31 pm
Edited on: February 26, 2011 3:32 pmScore: 139
Log-in to rate:Log-in to rate:Log-in to rate:Posted by Tom Fornelli

I've spent a lot more time writing about trees in the last few weeks than I ever planned to, but this Toomer's Corner soap opera just will not die. Harvey Updyke, the man who poisoned the famous oak trees on Auburn's campus, goes through lawyers than Lindsay Lohan goes through rehabs. Seriously, this story is to college football what Ronnie and Sammi have become to Jersey Shore. An unwanted distraction that is taking up too much time in our lives.

That being said, there just isn't a whole lot going on in the college football world right now, so we have to make do with whatever news we get. So here's some good news for Auburn fans everywhere. It seems that the oak tree situation may not be as dire as originally believed. The soil levels beneath the surface are showing a lower level of the herbicide than expected, and there's a possibility that the trees may survive.

"The good news is the concentrations are much lower than we initially detected in the beds around the trees. The bad news is we still detected herbicide," Gary Keever told al.com. "Is your glass half full or half empty? You can look at it either way. I choose to be an optimist because we're doing the right thing."

Keever is a professor of horticulture at Auburn and a member of a task force that is studying ways to save the trees.

[JR4AU]

You know the quandry here is that if our crack AU botonist save them, Updyke gets basically a free ride.

[The Prowler]

What if Auburn is able to save them, then just delay announcing it until after Updykes hearing?

[Kaos]

You know the quandry here is that if our crack AU botonist save them, Updyke gets basically a free ride.

The act is the act whether or not it was successful.  He's not going to be tried for "killing trees" is he?  It's the act of dispersing poison. 

[JR4AU]

The act is the act whether or not it was successful.  He's not going to be tried for "killing trees" is he?  It's the act of dispersing poison.

The charge is Criminal Mischeif, which requires actual property damage, and the dollar amount determines the degree.  In thinking about t though, he damaged the soil.  Fact is, today, the full extent of the damage is not known.

[Kaos]

The charge is Criminal Mischeif, which requires actual property damage, and the dollar amount determines the degree.  In thinking about t though, he damaged the soil.  Fact is, today, the full extent of the damage is not known.

He's a hero.  A national treasure. 

And I hate the quirks of the law.  Why is the penalty for succeeding greater than the penalty for trying? You try to kill somebody you shouldn't get less time than if you manage to do it. 

[JR4AU]

He's a hero.  A national treasure. 

And I hate the quirks of the law.  Why is the penalty for succeeding greater than the penalty for trying? You try to kill somebody you shouldn't get less time than if you manage to do it.

Murder is an exception, Murder and Attempted Murder are both Class A felonies.  In most cases Attempt is one degree less than the substantive crime attepted. 

As I said, in this case proving the damage is the issue.  You have to prove damage, and quantify it.  The DA there told me on the day of Updyke's arrest that this would be problematic. 

The Feds getting involved would help.  State law is not really equipped to properly handle this.

[AU_Tiger_2000]

The charge is Criminal Mischeif, which requires actual property damage, and the dollar amount determines the degree.  In thinking about t though, he damaged the soil.  Fact is, today, the full extent of the damage is not known.

Wouldn't the money spent on replacing soil, putting in charcoal to filter the herbicides, etc be included in actual damages?  Even if he did kill the trees the "actual" property value of two live oaks can't be that much.

Obviously the university is not going to be recouping their money from this guy.  Does this mean extra jail time if he cannot pay for damages incurred?

[dallaswareagle]

Wouldn't the money spent on replacing soil, putting in charcoal to filter the herbicides, etc be included in actual damages?  Even if he did kill the trees the "actual" property value of two live oaks can't be that much.

Obviously the university is not going to be recouping their money from this guy.  Does this mean extra jail time if he cannot pay for damages incurred?

Even if they can't re-coup any monies, I hope they sue the shit out of the guy. Just in case he does come into any money. He gets a job-garnish those wages. Make his life a living hell.

[AUJarhead]

Even if they can't re-coup any monies, I hope they sue the shit out of the guy. Just in case he does come into any money. He gets a job-garnish those wages. Make his life a living hell.

The idea of him writing a check every month, payable to Auburn University makes me smile somewhat.

[Snaggletiger]

The idea of him writing a check every month, payable to Auburn University makes me smile somewhat.

Agreed.  As far as the trees go, I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic here because wouldn't it be fair to say that this is pretty much untested waters?  Has anyone ever tried to reverse the process once the herbicide is applied?  I would assume it takes much longer for it to penetrate into a trees system as opposed to standard weed/brush killer that you spray directly on.  Any Whore-a-culutrists on the board?

[Jumbo]

Agreed.  As far as the trees go, I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic here because wouldn't it be fair to say that this is pretty much untested waters?  Has anyone ever tried to reverse the process once the herbicide is applied?  I would assume it takes much longer for it to penetrate into a trees system as opposed to standard weed/brush killer that you spray directly on.  Any Whore-a-culutrists on the board?

See them all the time.

[djsimp]

Agreed.  As far as the trees go, I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic here because wouldn't it be fair to say that this is pretty much untested waters?  Has anyone ever tried to reverse the process once the herbicide is applied?  I would assume it takes much longer for it to penetrate into a trees system as opposed to standard weed/brush killer that you spray directly on.  Any Whore-a-culutrists on the board?

There are several older guys here at work that are into some the farming bizz. One in particular told me that stuff usually reacts pretty quickly. He said that with the slightest spray you would start seeing definite evidence with a month or two that the greenery is dying, even on big trees. He also said, though, that if there is one tree that one is aiming to kill and its root system touches the system of another, that tree will die too.

I am being optimistic as well. If there is any school out there with the know how and horticulture connections it would be Auburn. The guys working on the Oaks seem to have a small glimmer of hope which is tons better than what they first believed. I have been trying to keep the "Tracking" thread up to date. The last article that I posted says they are getting into the wait and see mode but again, they are much more hopeful than a month ago.

[dallaswareagle]

The idea of him writing a check every month, payable to Auburn University makes me smile somewhat.

What would 1/2 of Min wage be x 4 weeks a month?

[JR4AU]

Wouldn't the money spent on replacing soil, putting in charcoal to filter the herbicides, etc be included in actual damages?  Even if he did kill the trees the "actual" property value of two live oaks can't be that much.

Obviously the university is not going to be recouping their money from this guy.  Does this mean extra jail time if he cannot pay for damages incurred?

1 Ptobably

2 Not likely

[MarkChand]

The idea of him writing a check every month, payable to Auburn University makes me smile somewhat.

Since this guy is a retired Texas State Trooper wouldn't you expect him to have some sort of pension? Is it possible to garnish his retirement?

[AWK]

Since this guy is a retired Texas State Trooper wouldn't you expect him to have some sort of pension? Is it possible to garnish his retirement?

Yes, you can levy and garnish retirement pensions, 401k's, IRA's, etc...

[AU_Tiger_2000]

Yes, you can levy and garnish retirement pensions, 401k's, IRA's, etc...

Think we could get his Kia that he's living by the creek in?

[AWK]

Think we could get his Kia that he's living by the creek in?

It's probably leased...or stolen.

[JR4AU]

Yes, you can levy and garnish retirement pensions, 401k's, IRA's, etc...

I dont think there is a mechanism to garnish in the criminal court.  Never seen it.