Sagging Pants Ban

[AUChizad]

Seriously?
Front page of Birmingham News.
http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1206951304248720.xml&coll=2

Youths' baggy pants signal lifestyle, fashion but Birmingham community frowns, debates
Officials, community hem and haw over `saggin' pants Monday, March 31, 2008ERIN STOCKNews staff writer
Desmond Ray has a 34-inch waistline, but he buys pants that are 36 inches around.

The 16-year-old said the extra space is comfortable and allows him to sag his pants - a style he says makes him look "jiggy." Seriously? Did they just say that? "Jiggy" wasn't even cool 10 years ago when Will Smith first introduced it.

A Smithfield man earlier this month asked the Birmingham City Council and mayor to consider banning pants that sag below waist level and expose undergarments or skin. Ray and his friends, who were hanging out after school last week in the Smithfield public housing community, oppose the proposed ban.

"Man, they can't tell us what to do," said James Tate, 17, whose jeans sagged several inches below his waist to expose purple mesh shorts.

It's been nearly a month and city officials haven't acted on Kamau Afrika's suggestion to ban the style. The activist said he plans to address the council again on Tuesday. He wants offenders to pay fines and do street clean-up in pink pajamas.

Council President Carole Smitherman said she wants to hold a town hall meeting on the proposed ban. Young people and others who "sag" need to be involved, she said.

"Let's hear from them because it is their issue," she said.

The penalty of pink pajamas would be a first. But several cities across the country have considered bans on the trend.

Baltimore has passed an ordinance discouraging it. Dallas started a public awareness campaign. And a task force formed by the Atlanta City Council recently recommended that city officials not outlaw the look, but instead counsel youth about other clothing options.

In Birmingham, the city school system's dress code prohibits sagging. But once the bell rings, young people are free to lower their pants and loosen their belts.

`Visual assault':

When underwear is visible, it could be considered a "visual assault" on passersby, said Kendra A. King, associate professor of politics at Oglethorpe University in Atlanta who teaches a class called The Politics of Hip Hop.

Baggy pants have been marketed as a style that advocates comfort and resonates a "keeping it real" attitude, she said. But no longer is it seen as a fashion trend; it's seen as a lifestyle indicator. And the message it sends is harmful, she said.

"It sets and sends a negative image, in particular as it relates to certain cadres of the African-American, male, youth population," King said. "It reinforces a subtle racial stereotype or expectation that a person dressed like this is either going to harm me, they might be less educated; they might be criminally-minded."

It's also a public safety issue, said Carol Duncan, a Birmingham City Council member who favors the ban. While some young people wear their pants low to be fashionable, she said, others hide drugs and weapons in the baggy clothing, she said.

Councilwoman Miriam Witherspoon also said she supports the ban.

Smitherman said she'd like to talk to law enforcement and further explore the proposal. She has concerns that a ban would violate First Amendment rights.

Local officials for the American Civil Liberties Union have said sagging is a style of dress and should not be regulated by the government.

Gary Richardson, who recently hosted a radio show on sagging on WJLD "Morning Talk," said he doesn't support censoring clothing, but when it becomes offensive to others, the government should get involved.

"I thought it was going to be a fad that would just come and go, but this is something that seems to be entrenched in the culture," said Richardson, who also is mayor of Midfield.

Councilman Steven Hoyt said the issue is much larger than sagging pants - it's about the need for good parenting. But a ban on "saggin" would be difficult to enforce, he said.

"I don't think that you can legislate morals and values and mores," he said. "It is a learned behavior and so even if you have a law that speaks to that issue, if folks are not being taught the difference between the two, it's not going to matter much."

On a recent sunny afternoon, barbers, their customers and others in the historic Fourth Avenue North Business District weighed in on the baggy pants phenomenon.

`It's just a style':

Marchello King, 23, said a ban would be unfair.

"A person should be able to wear their clothes like they want to. It's just a style," said King, a student at Jefferson State Community College. "They had the afro in the'60s, and we got the sag and the gold teeth."

Gwen C. Webb, whose office is on Fourth Avenue North, said showing underwear is indecent. The former police officer said that in prison it signaled a prisoner's sexual availability.

"If a lot of people knew where this came from, maybe they wouldn't do it," said Webb, vice chairwoman of the Civil Rights Activist Committee. Instead maybe they would "look like the Martin Luther Kings, the Barack Obamas, the Ralph Abernathys," Webb said.

Erskine Simpson, who owns the New Deal Barber Shop on Fourth Avenue North, was less critical. Worn appropriately, sagging is fine, the 58-year-old said. He also pointed out that females in low-rise pants sometimes expose their undergarments, too.

And anyway, he said, it won't last. "It'll go out like bell-bottom pants."

So the local government can institute a dress code now?

Look, I'll be the first to tell you that particular style of dress annoys the fuck out of me as well. But do people seriously want to go down that slippery slope where certain fashion trends are AGAINST THE LAW?

That will really help our national reputation when we authorize cops to throw kids in jail for "dressing black".

[Lurking Tiger]

"Man, they can't tell us what to do," said James Tate, 17, whose jeans sagged several inches below his waist to expose purple mesh shorts. "

So now the gay community has picked up on this ?


I was coming through the security line at O’Hare last week and this hot looking woman bent over to put her shoes back on and her pants came down below her ass. And she was without the encumbrance of underwear.

It was glorious.

If I can continue get looks at strange beav in the airport, I would fight this ban. Jerry, please let Obama know that we are in favor of this style.

[GarMan]

Just a couple of points on the topic....

1. Saggy pants isn't so much the problem as the visible undergarments, usually dirty and bordering on disgusting.  I do have a problem with offensive dress, but there are laws that already address it.  All we need to do is enforce the laws that already exist against indecency. 

2. Finally, these clowns don't fully realize what they are doing.  Not that I’ve learned this from experience, but the trend of loose pants is effectively an announcement that you're "available" for gay butt sex.  It started in prison 15-20 years ago.  Basically, when a prison bitch is ready to receive, he loosens his pants and drops them to the appropriate level.  He then walks the prison yard essentially soliciting his availability like a street-walking hooker in the hood.  I can’t believe all of these nimrods going around dressed like this in public.  This fact makes the trend even more offensive.  Again, all we need to do is enforce the laws that already exist against indecency. 

Now, I'm going to throw up...

[Snaggletiger]

Busting a sag is so jiggy.

[AUTailgatingRules]

It also makes it harder for them to run away from the cops.  Ever tried to run with your pants down around your ankles?

[Snaggletiger]

It also makes it harder for them to run away from the cops.  Ever tried to run with your pants down around your ankles?

Reminds me of a joke where a guy goes to a Ho House with very little cash.  They tell him he has just enough for the "Penguin Special".  Beautiful girl comes out and has him drop his pants to his ankles and while he stands there, proceeds to put an incredible blow job on him.  Just as he's about to pop, she stands up and walks away.  It's a visual joke because at that point, you demonstrate a guy trying to walk fast with his pants around his ankles, "Come back, pleeeease.... (Penguin special)

Okay fine, now carry on with the discussion of proposed non-jiggy legislation.

[Lurking Tiger]

It also makes it harder for them to run away from the cops.  Ever tried to run with your pants down around your ankles?

Yes.

[Tarheel]

...
Jerry, please let Obama know that we are in favor of this style.

Done!

[Tarheel]

...

2. Finally, these clowns don't fully realize what they are doing.  Not that I’ve learned this from experience, but the trend of loose pants is effectively an announcement that you're "available" for gay butt sex.  It started in prison 15-20 years ago.  Basically, when a prison bitch is ready to receive, he loosens his pants and drops them to the appropriate level.  He then walks the prison yard essentially soliciting his availability like a street-walking hooker in the hood.  I can’t believe all of these nimrods going around dressed like this in public.  This fact makes the trend even more offensive.  Again, all we need to do is enforce the laws that already exist against indecency. 

...

The fact that you know the history about this trend is disturbing to me GarMan.  I hope this isn't from first hand knowledge!

[AUChizad]

It was in the article.

[Tarheel]

It was in the article.

Of course; I didn't read that far apparently...GarMan still has a much more detailed description of the practice as opposed to the brief (no pun intended) mention in the article.

[Jumbo]

Jefferson County is bankrupt, the idoits on the council should fucking worry about that, rather than some kids Kriss Kross style.

[Pell City Tiger]

Pull up your fucking pants!

[Buzz Killington]

Busting a sag is so jiggy.

Word to your mother

[Snaggletiger]

Peace out